Reverb & delay - Helix vs Fractal

[Jarick]

Also I'm totally not looking at the Helix LT as a "full circle" moment, especially with the $150 price drop. I'm definitely not going to be listing my HX Stomp and Friedman IR-X to get some gear funds. That would be a silly idea of course.

Seriously though, strongly considering selling off the HX Stomp, Friedman IR-X, and Quad Cortex and getting a Helix LT as a virtual pedalboard to use with my Orange Rocker 15. It has plenty of switches, lots of power, I prefer the Helix effects over QC, it can do amp channel switching, it has 8 snapshots, and the expression pedal. It's built like a tank and has a regular power supply too.

 

[dk_ace]

I used to like HX delays better. Fractal used to have the most boring sterile delays, but they have improved so much the past few years I now prefer them.

For reverb Fractal wins. Except for spring reverbs. There are no winners here when it comes to spring reverbs.

I find the new fractal spring verbs to hold up well to my Ventris which is pretty good at spring. I can pull some types of spring sounds out of it easier than others, but I’ve found them generally satisfying.

My general way of using them is the “hard way” though and they still hold up. I’m running them post amp/cab model. Much easier to get what you want from them in front of a clean/cleanish amp model.

I still feel like it is a bit challenging to get it just right having to run it either completely in front of the amp (unless outboard is what I’m going for) or after the amp. In an ideal world we could put it where it would be in an amp circuit. This is probably more in my imagination than in reality though.

D

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Yes

Then I don't think that's what @Jarick was asking for.

 

[metropolis_4]

I can't remember, did you ever try the new spring reverbs? I don't think they made it to the FM3?

I did try them and they’re a big improvement over the old ones. But they’re still not even in the same league as the TMP

 

[dk_ace]

Also I'm totally not looking at the Helix LT as a "full circle" moment, especially with the $150 price drop. I'm definitely not going to be listing my HX Stomp and Friedman IR-X to get some gear funds. That would be a silly idea of course.

Seriously though, strongly considering selling off the HX Stomp, Friedman IR-X, and Quad Cortex and getting a Helix LT as a virtual pedalboard to use with my Orange Rocker 15. It has plenty of switches, lots of power, I prefer the Helix effects over QC, it can do amp channel switching, it has 8 snapshots, and the expression pedal. It's built like a tank and has a regular power supply too.

While Fractal still generally feels like home to me, the helix is a killer virtual pedalboard rig.

I had a gig a few months ago that was kind of two gigs, needed to be on two different stages just a few minutes apart. Wasn’t impossible to carry one rig between them, but it was risky and impractical. So I played the first one on FM9, then bummed an AC15 for the other stage and pulled out my helix as a virtual pedalboard in front of it. Took me maybe 10 minutes at home through a different amp to set up the board patch and have it mostly ready to go (I used an ac15 for years for small gigs so I already knew basically how to dial it in). Needed just a few minutes on the stage with the real amp that day to get it 100% ready and I was off to the races.

I think the virtual pedalboard usage is one of Helix best applications, I had similar power to massive pedalboards I’ve used in the past in a smaller package and could easily turn knobs to dial it in similar to a real pedalboard using the capacitive switches in just a few minutes. While I love my FM9, you just can’t do things as quickly on it live as you can the Helix. That doesn’t matter for most of what I do, but when I need to be able to fiddle with stuff the Helix is hard to beat.

Its main weaknesses to me are the reverbs, limited signal routing, and limited advanced parameters, but in front of an amp on a loudish stage none of that stuff is that big of a deal to me. That day made me think I may keep my Helix around even though I spend most time on the FM9.

D

 

[dk_ace]

I did try them and they’re a big improvement over the old ones. But they’re still not even in the same league as the TMP

I feel like I’m gonna have to try a TMP to see what all the fuss is about…

D

 

[Mongillo19]

I feel like I’m gonna have to try a TMP to see what all the fuss is about…

D

Very expensive spring reverb pedal

 

[blandified]

Do you find the hx effects to introduce noise to the rig? I got rid of mine earlier this year because of that but was wondering if newer ones were fixed.

I bought my HX Effects used off of reverb, so I don't know if it was a newer one or not. In terms of introducing noise, at first I had problems with power supplies and weird ground loop buzzing. But I stopped having noise issues when I got a new CS12 power supply and I got a new power brick for the HX Effects.

I will say that the HX Effects (my buddy said the same thing with HX Stomp) definitely colors your tone and changes the "feel." One of the selling points of Tonex is a good capture "feels" like a real amp. When I introduced the HX Effects, I would lose some of that feel and it would also change my tone, maybe losing some high end. I got used to it and EQ'ed my pedals to compensate and it sounded good after that. My buddy couldn't stand the way the HX Stomp changed his feel and tone, so he dropped it from his pedalboard.

 

[metropolis_4]

Very expensive spring reverb pedal

If you just want to plug directly into a blackface Fender, turn up the reverb and tremolo and play, it’s the best there is. For some other things… not so much

 

[JiveTurkey]

That 60 Cycle Hum vid got me for sure

 

[yek]

Isn't that just like turning down the mix instead of changing the curve?

Yes.

Because the post said:
"I wish you could adjust the mix law in the global settings for fractal"

 

[Jarick]

While Fractal still generally feels like home to me, the helix is a killer virtual pedalboard rig.

I had a gig a few months ago that was kind of two gigs, needed to be on two different stages just a few minutes apart. Wasn’t impossible to carry one rig between them, but it was risky and impractical. So I played the first one on FM9, then bummed an AC15 for the other stage and pulled out my helix as a virtual pedalboard in front of it. Took me maybe 10 minutes at home through a different amp to set up the board patch and have it mostly ready to go (I used an ac15 for years for small gigs so I already knew basically how to dial it in). Needed just a few minutes on the stage with the real amp that day to get it 100% ready and I was off to the races.

I think the virtual pedalboard usage is one of Helix best applications, I had similar power to massive pedalboards I’ve used in the past in a smaller package and could easily turn knobs to dial it in similar to a real pedalboard using the capacitive switches in just a few minutes. While I love my FM9, you just can’t do things as quickly on it live as you can the Helix. That doesn’t matter for most of what I do, but when I need to be able to fiddle with stuff the Helix is hard to beat.

Its main weaknesses to me are the reverbs, limited signal routing, and limited advanced parameters, but in front of an amp on a loudish stage none of that stuff is that big of a deal to me. That day made me think I may keep my Helix around even though I spend most time on the FM9.

D

Now I have two physical setups, it makes sense to have two physical devices. I like the QC with the amp but I like the effects variety on the Helix more. HX Stomp is limited both with DSP and physically, HX Effects has noise issues and doesn't have amp modeling. I'm kind of curious about something like a GX-100 as a pedalboard with the amp, but I have always preferred the HX stuff as it interacts a little more like real pedals.

Easier to justify if I sell down some other gear too that's already duplicative.

I bought my HX Effects used off of reverb, so I don't know if it was a newer one or not. In terms of introducing noise, at first I had problems with power supplies and weird ground loop buzzing. But I stopped having noise issues when I got a new CS12 power supply and I got a new power brick for the HX Effects.

I will say that the HX Effects (my buddy said the same thing with HX Stomp) definitely colors your tone and changes the "feel." One of the selling points of Tonex is a good capture "feels" like a real amp. When I introduced the HX Effects, I would lose some of that feel and it would also change my tone, maybe losing some high end. I got used to it and EQ'ed my pedals to compensate and it sounded good after that. My buddy couldn't stand the way the HX Stomp changed his feel and tone, so he dropped it from his pedalboard.

Yeah I did the same, bought it used and it had a hum. It wasn't as bad as ground loop but existed everywhere. I did try different isolated power supplies and no luck. I ran into others who had the same issue.

Agreed there is a little subtle tone change too, but I'm not that fussy typically.

 

[dk_ace]

Yes.

Because the post said:
"I wish you could adjust the mix law in the global settings for fractal"

I’m not sure it’s really the same thing, maybe.

The mix in Fractal is tricky to me compared to everything else I’ve used. You better adjust with your ears and not your eyes, that’s for sure. When I use reverbs in serial in Fractal, I am always shocked at how low that mix parameter needs to be relative to everything else I’ve ever used. If you just go rough things in quickly with values typical to virtually every other reverb unit, you’re gonna get a big surprise when you start playing.

I don’t really understand why this is, but I can work around it. I tend to do most things reverb and delay in parallel so this doesn’t impact me much.

D

 

[spawnofthesith]

Re noise: I didn't have any issues with my HX one although many people have reported major issues. With my stomp I mostly don't, however I have noticed that specifically with my Mark III, if I start mucking about with sending a stomp Preamp into the power section and then go back to my typical FX only 4CM a loud hum gets introduced. I thought I was going crazy for a minute until I realized thats what was introducing it. I don't really understand why but it seems like if you mess with an order of operations somewhere it kicks in

As far as tone/feel changes, I've never really noticed anything worth mentioning or being bothered by

 

[Lysander]

I will say that the HX Effects (my buddy said the same thing with HX Stomp) definitely colors your tone and changes the "feel."

Might be related to the fact of the HX Effects being, notoriously, the only device in the Helix family with a fixed input impedance.

It's still a very reasonable 1MΩ, but this can color the tone a bit if the HXFX is the first device in the signal chain, when compared to plugging in directly to other devices. It also means that some models which are very impedance-sensitive, such as fuzzes, might not sound quite the same as their real-world counterparts.

 

[dk_ace]

Re noise: I didn't have any issues with my HX one although many people have reported major issues. With my stomp I mostly don't, however I have noticed that specifically with my Mark III, if I start mucking about with sending a stomp Preamp into the power section and then go back to my typical FX only 4CM a loud hum gets introduced. I thought I was going crazy for a minute until I realized thats what was introducing it. I don't really understand why but it seems like if you mess with an order of operations somewhere it kicks in

As far as tone/feel changes, I've never really noticed anything worth mentioning or being bothered by

That’s a ground loop you’re getting. I’m not a good enough rig builder to tell you how best to fix it in this case, but you’ve got to lift a ground somewhere in there and get rid of the loop that is causing the hum.

D

 

[dk_ace]

Might be related to the fact of the HX Effects being, notoriously, the only device in the Helix family with a fixed input impedance.

It's still a very reasonable 1MΩ, but this can color the tone a bit if the HXFX is the first device in the signal chain, when compared to plugging in directly to other devices. It also means that some models which are very impedance-sensitive, such as fuzzes, might not sound quite the same as their real-world counterparts.

Nothing to do with the impedance. It’s a ground loop.

1M is the impedance of nearly every amp, so it’s like you’re plugging straight into an amp from an impedance perspective. It was a weird choice to make it fixed on the FX given how it cripples some of the effects though.

D

 

[spawnofthesith]

That’s a ground loop you’re getting. I’m not a good enough rig builder to tell you how best to fix it in this case, but you’ve got to lift a ground somewhere in there and get rid of the loop that is causing the hum.

D

I guess what is leaving me perplexed is that it’s only occurring when I very specifically do something such as mess with either the 4CM cables themselves or switch to a patch that doesn’t have the fx send block on and then back again after the amp is already on

If I power everything on with the stomp turning onto my standard 4CM fx only presets there’s no ground loop

 

[dk_ace]

I guess what is leaving me perplexed is that it’s only occurring when I very specifically do something such as mess with either the 4CM cables themselves or switch to a patch that doesn’t have the fx send block on and then back again after the amp is already on

If I power everything on with the stomp turning onto my standard 4CM fx only presets there’s no ground loop

 

[EOengineer]

Helix Floor is prolific as a pedalboard. Tons of flexibility, generally decent effects, and oh man SNAPSHOTS. If you can swing it, the floor is worth the price difference. The heftier hardware and the amazing scribble strips are a big step up in the experience.

Fractal makes great stuff too. The next version of the FM9 likely lands here.