Plugin Piracy Thread

[paisleywookiee]

To me anyone that says they are against plugin piracy and yet use profiles of paid plugins and anything else really are just kidding themselves. Cognitive bias is real.

That's your point? That's what you're concerned with? I think it's an odd line in the sand, since while it's technically possible, I don't know of anyone really doing that, and I certainly don't.

 

[ian_dissonance]

To me anyone that says they are against plugin piracy and yet use profiles of paid plugins and anything else really are just kidding themselves. Cognitive bias is real.

Whole different conversation.

 

[Tito83]

That isn't what this thread is about either. However, not only do I think profiling/capturing/modeling is not morally wrong, neither does Mesa Boogie, Engl, Fender, Orange, etc.

Very different when the, not just legal, but the moral owner of the IP is ok with it - and not only that, also rightfully profits from it. Then it's perfectly fine. The company that created the technology gains something, the amp designers also do and also does the people who could not otherwise have access to those tones. Great win for everyone.

 

[Tito83]

Whole different conversation.

Still waiting to hear a single reason why it's different. The one answer I got was "because it is different". Not great.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Very different when the, not just legal, but the moral owner of the IP is ok with it - and not only that, also rightfully profits from it. Then it's perfectly fine. The company that created the technology gains something, the amp designers also do and also does the people who could not otherwise have access to those tones. Great win for everyone.

IK Multimedia not only hosts, but also sells packs with a lot of those amps also in them, that aren't "official" from the companies, who don't see a dime. Don't you think if they had a problem with it, they'd say something?

 

[paisleywookiee]

Still waiting to hear a single reason why it's different. The one answer I got was "because it is different". Not great.

You don't understand the difference between software code and a sound? Interesting.

 

[Tito83]

IK Multimedia not only hosts, but also sells packs with a lot of those amps also in them, that aren't "official" from the companies, who don't see a dime.

Repeat that out loud, put yourself int the shoes of a smaller amp manufacturer... That doesn't seem wrong to you?

Maybe they don't say anything because they are legally lost from the start - which doesn't mean it's moral.

You don't understand the difference between software code and a sound? Interesting.

Sure, and I've asked multiple times how a copy of the software and an exact copy of what it does is morally different. If one is stealing I can't see how you'd say the other isn't. Just saying "it's different" or "copyright" is not really an argument.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Repeat that out loud, put yourself int the shoes of a smaller amp manufacturer... That doesn't seem wrong to you?

Maybe they don't say anything because they are legally lost from the start - which doesn't mean it's moral.

Because, repeat it out loud, "it's not the same thing." How small of a company do you want to go? Dr Z? They're okay with it. Milkman? They're okay with it.

Sure, and I've asked multiple times how a copy of the software and an exact copy of what it does is morally different. If one is stealing I can't see how you'd say the other isn't. Just saying "it's different" or "copyright" is not really an argument.

Because, repeat it out loud, "it's not the same thing." There's nothing to explain. There's nothing to argue. They're literally, objectively, not the same thing. I don't know what cognitive dissonance is swirling inside you. But it's not the same thing.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Still waiting to hear a single reason why it's different. The one answer I got was "because it is different". Not great.

There’s no reason you’d accept. They’re different. You’re just really complicating the question because…reasons? If a plugin costs money to buy and you want to use it or own it outside its trial, pay for it with money.

 

[paisleywookiee]

There’s no reason you’d accept. They’re different. You’re just really complicating the question because…reasons? If a plugin costs money to buy and you want to use it or own it outside its trial, pay for it with money.

Yeah man, I'm outta gas on this one.

 

[Tito83]

Because, repeat it out loud, "it's not the same thing." How small of a company do you want to go? Dr Z? They're okay with it. Milkman? They're okay with it.

Because, repeat it out loud, "it's not the same thing." There's nothing to explain. There's nothing to argue. They're literally, objectively, not the same thing. I don't know what cognitive dissonance is swirling inside you. But it's not the same thing.

There’s no reason you’d accept. They’re different. You’re just really complicating the question because…reasons? If a plugin costs money to buy and you want to use it or own it outside its trial, pay for it with money.

A - Plugin 100$
B - Pirated Plugin 0$
C - Clone of the Plugin 0$

Guitarist plays through all three, no difference.

How do you justify C being morally ok and B being wrong?

"It's different" doesn't seem to cut it for me. It seems awfully like it's just a very convenient lie you tell yourself to trick you from facing the uncomfortable idea you're no different from the ones you call thieves. It's just theft that's culturally accepted, that's all, no real moral consideration.

 

[texhex]

A - Plugin 100$
B - Pirated Plugin 0$
C - Clone of the Plugin 0$

Guitarist plays through all three, no difference.

How do you justify C being morally ok and B being wrong?

"It's different" doesn't seem to cut it for me. It seems awfully like it's just a very convenient lie you tell yourself to trick you from facing the uncomfortable idea you're no different from the ones you call thieves. It's just theft that's culturally accepted, that's all, no real moral consideration.

B is a functional piece of software, C is not.

 

[paisleywookiee]

A - Plugin 100$
B - Pirated Plugin 0$
C - Clone of the Plugin 0$

Guitarist plays through all three, no difference.

How do you justify C being morally ok and B being wrong?

"It's different" doesn't seem to cut it for me. It seems awfully like it's just a very convenient lie you tell yourself to trick you from facing the uncomfortable idea you're no different from the ones you call thieves. It's just theft that's culturally accepted, that's all, no real moral consideration.

I never said I was morally okay with people using a trial software to capture it. In fact, I said it was not illegal, but it wasn't ethical either. Dude, your point is just way fucking weird, because I don't know of anyone doing something like that, because it's more trouble than it's worth. It's a very weird hill to die on.

 

[texhex]

Cliff watching this thread like…

 

[SillyOctpuss]

A - Plugin 100$
B - Pirated Plugin 0$
C - Clone of the Plugin 0$

How do you justify C being morally ok and B being wrong?

Has anyone said that? Seriously if they did I missed it. Please quote it for us.

 

[Tito83]

B is a functional piece of software, C is not.

NAM and ToneX seem to run perfectly fine for most people apparently. Never seen anyone arguing that.

 

[Tito83]

Has anyone said that? Seriously if they did I missed it. Please quote it for us.

@paisleywookiee @ian_dissonance @LP59 @texhex seem to fully agree unless I missed something.

I never said I was morally okay with people using a trial software to capture it. In fact, I said it was not illegal, but it wasn't ethical either. Dude, your point is just way fucking weird, because I don't know of anyone doing something like that, because it's more trouble than it's worth. It's a very weird hill to die on.

In this case I didn't even mentioned trial period. I also don't think it's ok to share clones of the sounds of a paid plugin even if you own it. But I guess some are ok with it because "it's different" and also because it's approved by their social group. Again, no real moral consideration, just convenience and herd mentality in play.

 

[paisleywookiee]

@paisleywookiee @ian_dissonance @LP59 @texhex seem to fully agree unless I missed something.

Yeah, you are missing something. I never said I thought it was ethical to capture plugins. I've said it twice now. Maybe it'll stick this time for you.

Again, you're talking about shit that's fringe at best. By and large, captures are of real amps.

 

[texhex]

NAM and ToneX seem to run perfectly fine for most people apparently. Never seen anyone arguing that.

C is not literally A. B is literally A.

 

[Tito83]

Yeah, you are missing something. I never said I thought it was ethical to capture plugins. I've said it twice now. Maybe it'll stick this time for you.

Again, you're talking about shit that's fringe at best. By and large, captures are of real amps.

While it’s true legal != moral or ethical, I think in regards to capturing or modeling, it lines up

Haven't seen you making such distinction until now. And fringe? Take a look at the NAM site and search for NDSP plugins.