Pick the real amp out from the emulations

[DrewJD82]

When I bought those amps almost 2 years ago I thought I was going to have an epiphany that using real amps would be more motivating/get what I wanted quicker, but that definitely did not happen. That’s only a thing for me in band setting where everyone is cranked up.

I know I recorded a song a few months back that had everything on it, mic’d cabs powered by tube amps, tube amps into a load box, Fractal direct and pretty sure I had a few tracks of the Fractal into a real cab. I wanted to see how everything compared in the same space. The amount of time I spent moving the damn mic around trying to get what I needed from it for the track pretty much killed any enjoyment for me. TBF, my apartment isn’t a pro studio and I don’t have a robot arm moving a mic where I’m in a totally other room hearing on great monitors. I basically had to record a few seconds, check it in the mix, go move the mic and repeat until I got it.

There was probably 90-120 minutes spent fucking with mic placement/unplugging amps/cabs/moving shit that I could have done in literal seconds in the AxeFX and I wouldn’t have had to make any concessions for a mic’d amp in an apartment/untreated room.

 

[Chocol8]

(apart from the mic portion within the IR, which can be taken care of).

But most IR's have partial mic/room information, so while it CAN be taken care of it rarely is.

 

[Chocol8]

There was probably 90-120 minutes spent fucking with mic placement

Yes, it is easy to mic a cab, but I found micing a cab well is a lot more difficult. I think most of us amateurs are better off with IR's or other cab sims.

 

[DrewJD82]

Yes, it is easy to mic a cab, but I found micing a cab well is a lot more difficult. I think most of us amateurs are better off with IR's or other cab sims.

Hell, there’s mic’ing a cab well in general and then mic’ing a cab well enough to work for what you’re actually recording. I’m way too pragmatic when it comes to writing/recording, as much as I love the process, it’s the creative aspect of I love and I’m just not in a position to explore the creative aspects of mic’ing cabs. I’d need a shit ton more of them, a few more mics and some good rooms to put them in for that to even be a consideration.

 

[Chocol8]

Hell, there’s mic’ing a cab well in general and then mic’ing a cab well enough to work for what you’re actually recording. I’m way too pragmatic when it comes to writing/recording, as much as I love the process, it’s the creative aspect of I love and I’m just not in a position to explore the creative aspects of mic’ing cabs. I’d need a shit ton more of them, a few more mics and some good rooms to put them in for that to even be a consideration.

Yep, I "leave that to the pros" and just get an IR!

 

[Eagle]

get out of 2016 and make your way to the present.

Good gear is timeless this shit isn’t.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

When I bought those amps almost 2 years ago I thought I was going to have an epiphany that using real amps would be more motivating/get what I wanted quicker, but that definitely did not happen. That’s only a thing for me in band setting where everyone is cranked up.

I was chatting with @Orvillain recently about this. I think before I owned a Kemper, I had 3 amps. Since getting more into digital, I’ve somehow got MORE into owning real amps. Almost like the harder I push myself towards digital, real amps are keeping me back somehow (even with digital advancing WAY more than where things were at when I first grabbed a Kemper).

 

[Eagle]

To be frank you’ve got a weird attitude to all of this. It’s a reasonably simple recording comparison where there’s nuances between each digital version compared to the amp. Noones selling you anything, noones making claims that these are replacing amps, noones talking about ""FRFR"". The whole conversation has steered for some reason when it’s really just a simple listening and comparing exercise.

The setup is extremely valid because the real amp was recorded in a way people record amps. The NAM captures are trying to replicate what the amp is producing, it’s all pretty straightforward stuff that has nothing to do with replacing amps, in the room sound or ""FRFR""

The whole lot is pushed through the same shit filter making the whole test pointless.

 

[JiveTurkey]

The whole lot is pushed through the same shit filter making the whole test pointless.

Is this like that A/B test you wanted us to watch that used the $10 AliExpress A/B box in the signal chain, though?

 

[spawnofthesith]

Hell, there’s mic’ing a cab well in general and then mic’ing a cab well enough to work for what you’re actually recording. I’m way too pragmatic when it comes to writing/recording, as much as I love the process, it’s the creative aspect of I love and I’m just not in a position to explore the creative aspects of mic’ing cabs. I’d need a shit ton more of them, a few more mics and some good rooms to put them in for that to even be a consideration.

Yep, I "leave that to the pros" and just get an IR!

I'm an outlier, I've experimented with numerous IRs in our practice space feeding our IEMs (with my actual amps and a loadbox) and I vastly prefer the sound of just tossing a Sennheiser on the cab

I do appreciate IRs for quickly tracking ideas and scratch tracks in my apartment

As far as recording for "official" business I think I've been happiest so far with the last approach we did with a sennheiser 906 and a small condenser on the cab, and a large condenser for "the room" and blending those three together

 

[Eagle]

Is this like that A/B test you wanted us to watch that used the $10 AliExpress A/B box in the signal chain, though?

You were supposed to look at the method. The cheap AB box was analog and unlikely to affect anything . It was an example of a genuinely fair way of comparing two pedals as opposed to the shit you usually get. But as always a real test requires you to be present and playing. Trying to listen to the dynamics of the clips that have little or no dynamic range and different EQ is pointless.

 

[JiveTurkey]

You were supposed to look at the method. The cheap AB box was analog and unlikely to affect anything . It was an example of a genuinely fair way of comparing two pedals as opposed to the shit you usually get. But as always a real test requires you to be present and playing. Trying to listen to the dynamics of the clips that have little or no dynamic range and different EQ is pointless.

I just wanted to rile you up

 

[[Nathan]]

The whole lot is pushed through the same shit filter making the whole test pointless.

That shit filter is so bad that it’s an industry standard and also used in professional studios making charting music. I guess they don’t have the golden ears you do!

 

[Sascha Franck]

But most IR's have partial mic/room information, so while it CAN be taken care of it rarely is.

Sure. But the technique itself is fine.
And fwiw, not necessarily important, but I actually like the mic to be a portion of it. These things seem to be listening to cabs better than I can (at least more consistently).

 

[Eagle]

That shit filter is so bad that it’s an industry standard and also used in professional studios making charting music. I guess they don’t have the golden ears you do!

so what it’s a lowest common denominator shit filter.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

so what it’s a lowest common denominator shit filter.

A shit filter that every good band, studio, engineer etc has ever used on almost every recording for decades. Clearly it’s not at all up to task, or any real situation.

@Eagle doesn’t even allow microphones near his rig because one hasn’t been invented yet that does his amazing tone justice. They’re all shit filters.

There’s clearly dynamic changes between these examples btw. I would suggest listening more carefully if they sound too similar because others are able to determine differences.

 

[Chocol8]

They’re all shit filters.

If you don't feed them shit, they won't filter shit.

In a sense, there is an argument to be made that microphones, and especially close micing, are a compromise and have been used out of necessity rather than because they enhance tone. That said, the mics and techniques have become part of the sound of so many recordings, so they are part of the tones many are used to hearing.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Radio Shack lapel mic the cab or GTFO

 

[Orvillain]

I was chatting with @Orvillain recently about this. I think before I owned a Kemper, I had 3 amps. Since getting more into digital, I’ve somehow got MORE into owning real amps. Almost like the harder I push myself towards digital, real amps are keeping me back somehow (even with digital advancing WAY more than where things were at when I first grabbed a Kemper).

Yeah but we also talked about how @DrewJD82 is a gimp, so... swings and roundabouts.

 

[Chocol8]

Radio Shack lapel mic the cab or GTFO

That's some difficult to find vintage gear around here!