Phono cables WTF!

[Eagle]

Its a very simple thing, you only have two questions to answer ;
1. does it sound better to you?
2. Is that difference worth the cost to you?
For me the answers are yes for one and no for two. If I had a £30k system the difference is much bigger and the answer may have been yes yes.
Just because you don't like the idea of it doesn't mean it doesn't work.

 

[Eagle]

FWIW I've used VERY good cable, Vovox etc is not exactly cheap and measures very well. As it happens, CAT6 cable can be extremely good for running audio through and is significantly less expensive. I've used enough good cable to be very skeptical of those claiming to be good without backing it up. It's really not difficult to verify the claims with more substance than word of mouth. For whatever reason, you place a lot of value on non quantifiable methods of validation. A lot of salesmen's eyes light up at people like that.

I'm also listening on VERY good monitoring in a properly treated room for 10 hours a day. I'd fancy my chances at being able to hear these kinds of differences.

it's night and day different with a system that can reproduce it.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The problem is, people think all kinds of expensive rubbish sounds good. Something inexpensive and equally poor performing could also sound good to someone. The fool is the person who’s willing to pay way over the odds for it on spurious marketing claims.

Absolutely no one should be spending £1000 on a single cable until they have treated their acoustics to the absolute limit of what’s possible. You’re wearing an F1 helmet and racing suit and trying to drive in a shopping trolley.

 

[FuzzyAce]

They sold me after the first sentence! I'll take 4 pairs!

"Six 25AWG Black Pearl solid silver conductors drawn in diamond coated dies and insulated with virgin FEP dielectric under the most exacting tolerances which offer the purest transfers of the most demanding highest resolution signals."

https://kimber.com/series/select/analog-interconnects#1136

 

[Eagle]

They sold me after the first sentence! I'll take 4 pairs!



https://kimber.com/series/select/analog-interconnects#1136

They have to big up the fact that the spec however good sounding they are ( and they are no question) is somehow worth anything close to that. I see £250 but not more. Great product but insanely overpriced.

 

[newholland]

FWIW I've used VERY good cable. As it happens, CAT6 cable can be extremely good for running audio through and is significantly less expensive. I've used enough good cable to be very skeptical of those claiming to be good without backing it up. It's really not difficult to verify the claims with more substance than word of mouth. For whatever reason, you place a lot of value on non quantifiable methods of validation. A lot of salesmen's eyes light up at people like that.

I'm also listening on VERY good monitoring in a properly treated room for 10 hours a day. I'd fancy my chances at being able to hear these kinds of differences.

i wouldnt disagree. engineers listen. BUT i think theres objective listening and subjective tuning. they arent the same.

i think of it this way. i love beyer dt150s- great phone to play with- big bass, super thick and amazing, very organic. i could listen to that can with anything and feel like... aw shit, this just brings me joy. mixing? worst can ever. mushy, over bassed, not a clear top, more midbass than necessary. in steps the dt880.


its the exact same scenario with cables. theyre just another tool in the arsenal. but explaining to audiophiles that those two different tools have different JOBS is difficult because they think shits supposed to all sound great regardless of function. but it just doesnt.

ive used cat 5- and its okay, but not great. it does pass signal! but most folks dont use it for a reason. again bring beer, youll hear differences! and how i know is im the same- lots of monitoring time. that said- ns10s or hs80s are just a different sitch than my living room system and function totally different in terms of wanting to listen versus using the sonic scalpel. man.. i dont want that on the couch

 

[Stone]

Being a somewhat audiophile i can attest that good analog cables will make a difference of course has to be proportionate to your sound system
and no i dont think that $500.00 cables will be different than say a good quality $100.00 cable
Certain things like Anti vibration feet will also make a slight difference, but all the rest of the pseudo science snake oil like wood knobs and elevators for your 10,000$ speaker cables and other dohickeys, thats simply snake oil

 

[newholland]

truly though mirror, i dont disagree about the bullshit involved and the insane costs- and that treatment is also important. but moreso that often times its not placebo, and that theres crazy gains to be made with simple analog filters like cables, especially in the ether of really high resolution systems cause you really hear the differences which are invisible in most consumer stuff.

 

[laxu]

its the exact same scenario with cables. theyre just another tool in the arsenal. but explaining to audiophiles that those two different tools have different JOBS is difficult because they think shits supposed to all sound great regardless of function. but it just doesnt.

I don't see it like that at all. To me a cable should not have a character, or sound or anything. It should be just a method to deliver signal accurately from A to B.

I recently built some new instrument cables. Instrument cable capacitance has a helluva lot more relevance for sound than something delivering line level signals.

My go-to cable for years has been Klotz La Grange, with a very low capacitance of 65 pF / meter. Mainly because it's been a good performance/value/availability thing in the past over here. This time I ordered Sommer Classique, 78 pF /meter.

I built an identical 3m length cable to my Klotz, same Neutrik jacks etc. Then I tried them back to back. I could hear the Klotz was a little bit brighter but that's about it. It was an irrelevant difference as now my stylish Sommer tweed cable is easier to pick apart from a sea of black cables.

I have never been able to tell a difference between speaker cables or cables used with line level signals.

"Magic cables" are IMO the biggest scam in audiophile stuff, and they are sold on everything but specs. They are right at that price point where audiophiles decide to buy them because they "only" cost them $1-2K or something - which is often "nothing" when they have way more expensive amps and speakers. Then people are very likely to make themselves believe they hear a difference, because when you are $1-2K in the hole you probably want to hear a difference!

At least the cables Eagle was fixing had a return period. I still think a lot of people end up keeping them because they like having "the best", and sending them back is a hassle. Or even if they don't hear the difference, it must still be there because why else would they sell these magic cables?

There's a lot of psychology in play with these things and unfortunately very rarely actual scientific measurements.

 

[FuzzyAce]

The only time I could see it paying off, and if we're talking about a 1/2% more transparent and quieter cable... would be to use said cables from the recording stage throughout to mastering stage, and then to the consumer stage. Because what if the recording and mastering stages are using lesser quality cables?
Cables are very important granted, and it's sometimes the last thing we think to upgrade in a system til one dies. Not all are equal of course.
If you're spending a half million plus on a studio environment then it makes sense to spend good money on quality cables, as long as the cabling lives up to a measurable difference you can hear and experience, and the materials are the best they can be for the price.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I have never been able to tell a difference between speaker cables or cables used with line level signals.

Same here. I can't even pick much of a difference (if at all) once the signal is buffered. And that is with the signal passing several further "noise enhancing" devices such as drives, amps and compressors. As said, once you don't pick shitty cables to start with, there's not too much to gain.

After all, there's a reason noone from Monster Cable ever bothered to attend the test James Randi wanted to perform - and they would've been rewarded $1M.

 

[newholland]

guys with $20k in stereo gear built for 10-30khz frequency playback- 'i hear genuine differences in cabling on my system.' LIAR! SUCKER!

guys with $150 two channel interface and guitar amp that plays from 80hz to 5k: CBLES R ALL ThA SAMEZORz cuz HERE No DIfrANS

TrUTHTELLoR! SCIenZ!


yall are a bit much. you do know that tuning all electronics sonically comes from integrating the same electrical principles active in cables into guitar amps and parts, right? cause, like, its like how electrons work to make sound. not mojo voodoo? how does a pot work? how does a cap work? hows an inductor work? MAGIC.

 

[Sascha Franck]

We do by now know that you want to justify the expense of a 1k cinch cable, @newholland - each to their own obsessions.

 

[newholland]

We do by now know that you want to justify the expense of a 1k cinch cable, @newholland - each to their own obsessions.

my cables, as previously mentioned, were all free. no skin in the game man. im just listening and reacting.

 

[maguchi]

The cable spacer is rosewood.

Can I get a Brazilian rosewood spacer for a upcharge?

 

[Eagle]

Someone could copy the design and probably make it for around £150 but it depends on how much the ultra purity of the silver matters beyond what you can commercially buy and of course the price of fairy piss. You could use the same plugs even.

 

[laxu]

guys with $20k in stereo gear built for 10-30khz frequency playback- 'i hear genuine differences in cabling on my system.' LIAR! SUCKER!

guys with $150 two channel interface and guitar amp that plays from 80hz to 5k: CBLES R ALL ThA SAMEZORz cuz HERE No DIfrANS

TrUTHTELLoR! SCIenZ!

I only brought up instrument cables because those are something where it's easy to hear an effect if you compare them.

You can otherwise consider speaker and line level cables for guitar gear or studio gear. Personally I can't hear a difference.

I recently changed from RCA cables to XLR cables on my Genelec studio monitors because I got them placed better so I had the right length cables. I noticed absolutely no difference even though the XLR should be better for noise and quality.

But of course some pure silver cable will make all the difference. Too bad none of that silver cable is anywhere inside the amp or speaker wiring.

 

[newholland]

I only brought up instrument cables because those are something where it's easy to hear an effect if you compare them.

You can otherwise consider speaker and line level cables for guitar gear or studio gear. Personally I can't hear a difference.

I recently changed from RCA cables to XLR cables on my Genelec studio monitors because I got them placed better so I had the right length cables. I noticed absolutely no difference even though the XLR should be better for noise and quality.

But of course some pure silver cable will make all the difference. Too bad none of that silver cable is anywhere inside the amp

look up 'conductivity' in re silver. it definitely has a sound different than most copper in my experience- and i have one silver cable, so not super broad experience. sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesnt- but generally speaking, it's more open on top, faster dynamics, and less thick sounding than a lot of copper cables- a lot of folks use it in very few strands, which im sure accentuates that too.

its not magic, its a metals properties, and you can use that, like an alnico magnet, or a large dustcap or a heavier spider, or heavier gauge strings, or a choke in an amp, to tune response.

xlrs are subject to the exact same properties, you just get better noise rejection. adding more wire is great and all, but most times its just the same wire and another cheaply made termination. im not THAT surprised it sounds the same unless youre in some super noisy studio.

and while i know what studio monitors can do, they really arent always the most relaxed or natural way to listen to music as nearfields. you can hear differences- and i think if its your main listening device its gonna be more apparent- but for me, headphone and hifi amps are easier for me to hear changes in cables than a focusrite interface into monitors. but i hear them pretty plainly into a secondary canamp for recording from the same device. maybe how my own ears work or the inclusion of the space.

again, not tryna say any of this is the be all end all and anybody NEEDS this shit, only that its another tuning strategy based on real electromechanical truths, regardless if the marketing.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Usually the difference in cabling is from shielding. Less shielding=lower capacitance and that’ll sound brighter. But it’s also more prone to noise and interference. Sometimes you can get away with using unshielded cable though, or you choose which trade off makes most sense.

 

[newholland]

Usually the difference in cabling is from shielding. Less shielding=lower capacitance and that’ll sound brighter. But it’s also more prone to noise and interference. Sometimes you can get away with using unshielded cable though, or you choose which trade off makes most sense.

i think thats part of the equation, as well as the winding geometries, insulators, volume of wire, terminations. its weird science for sure, and i think in commercial stuff like most of us use, bean counters limit the creativity of what can happen to move units cheap.

a few years back, i spoke with a guy who wound crazy data cables for industrial applications and he definitely spoke to a)how expensive maximizing transmission was, and b) that theres a lot more to it on the net than people think. now .. are rcas THAT? hell no. but it does at least speak to the fact that theres potential in thinking outside the box.