NMD: Axe-Fx III MK II Turbo (J.F)

[Stone]

I agree, for my personal needs. I mainly flipped through the usual suspects for high gain, and I wasn't grabbed by any of the presets.

Now... The "weirdo" presets are incredible and really showcase the funky stuff modeling enables. I vividly remember how mind-blowing the Warped Vinyl preset was to me years and years ago.

It's not one of the aforementioned weirdo presets, but the Studio Clean is also

But yeah, in general, there's a very short list of factory presets in any unit I like. I'm with @JiveTurkey as part of the clean slate club.

I agree that its Not for everyone, Mostly Seasoned pro/power users may not have much use for presets

 

[James Freeman]

Okay, brace yourselves, I have found the first thing that I REALLY hate.
The Negative Feedback internal volume compensation fucks up with the Master Volume actual volume range really badly.
For example, take the JCM800 and put the Master Volume on 10, now play with the Negative Feedback control from 0 to 10.

With NFB at 0 you have barely 15dB of actual volume change from the Master Volume control going form 1 to 10.
Anyone with a tube amp with a nfb pot and a load box will tell you something is very wrong with Fractal's implementation.

Err, can we please have a normal negative feedback control, ie. that sounds and behaves like a pot on a tube amp?
A On/Off switch would be
Why so empty?

 

[holoholo]

 

[FractalAudio]

Okay, brace yourselves, I have found the first thing that I REALLY hate.
The Negative Feedback internal volume compensation fucks up with the Master Volume actual volume range really badly.
For example, take the JCM800 and put the Master Volume on 10, now play with the Negative Feedback control from 0 to 10.

With NFB at 0 you have barely 15dB of actual volume change from the Master Volume control going form 1 to 10.
Anyone with a tube amp with a nfb pot and a load box will tell you something is very wrong with Fractal's implementation.

Err, can we please have a normal negative feedback control, ie. that sounds and behaves like a pot on a tube amp?
A On/Off switch would be
Why so empty?
View attachment 14338

It has no effect on the behavior of the MV. The compensation is on the very output of the amp block. All it does is try to keep the volume from changing dramatically as you turn the NFB up/down.

With NFB at zero the power amp will saturate very early since its gain is higher.

 

[James Freeman]

I have nothing to add but to say again that it completely destroys the expected behavior of the Master Volume, one of the most important controls in a tube amp, it does more harm than good.

 

[FractalAudio]

I have nothing to add but to say again that it completely destroys the expected behavior of the Master Volume, one of the most important controls in a tube amp, it does more harm than good.

The MV control behaves like the modeled amp. The compensation is only for NFB. If you turn NFB down the LEVEL out of the amp block is reduced and vice-versa. This way the volume stays relatively constant. Otherwise the volume changes drastically as you change the NFB.

What exactly are you expecting the MV to do that it isn't doing?

We actually pride ourselves on how accurate the MV response is. On most modeling products the response at high MV settings is inaccurate. Our modeling is extremely accurate at all MV settings.

 

[luckymethod]

Yes. :)
When comparing apples to apples it's not light years ahead of other good modelers like many people like to believe,

You're probably comparing the best model in the helix with a model in the axe. Do the same comparison with the Mesa mark and then let's see if the story is the same.

Not to mention the analysis on the time domain is probably going to yield some other interesting factoids, even when they sound the same the axe feels noticeably different.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Okay, brace yourselves, I have found the first thing that I REALLY hate.
The Negative Feedback internal volume compensation fucks up with the Master Volume actual volume range really badly.
For example, take the JCM800 and put the Master Volume on 10, now play with the Negative Feedback control from 0 to 10.

With NFB at 0 you have barely 15dB of actual volume change from the Master Volume control going form 1 to 10.
Anyone with a tube amp with a nfb pot and a load box will tell you something is very wrong with Fractal's implementation.

Err, can we please have a normal negative feedback control, ie. that sounds and behaves like a pot on a tube amp?
A On/Off switch would be
Why so empty?
View attachment 14338

 

[Gearzilla]

I have nothing to add but to say again that it completely destroys the expected behavior of the Master Volume, one of the most important controls in a tube amp, it does more harm than good.

The MV control behaves like the modeled amp. The compensation is only for NFB. If you turn NFB down the LEVEL out of the amp block is reduced and vice-versa. This way the volume stays relatively constant. Otherwise the volume changes drastically as you change the NFB.

What exactly are you expecting the MV to do that it isn't doing?

We actually pride ourselves on how accurate the MV response is. On most modeling products the response at high MV settings is inaccurate. Our modeling is extremely accurate at all MV settings.

Spoiler

 

[James Freeman]

This way the volume stays relatively constant.

Well it's not, otherwise I would not have reported this.
As I've reported with the JCM800, crank the Master to 10 and move the NFB form 0 to 10.
When NFB is on 10 the output volume is WAY louder than with NFB on 0, so it's overcompensating and only when the Master volume is cranked.
Something is not right.

I will always vouch for realistic and authentic behavior.
I get it, it prevents inexperienced users form asking too much question but all it does is destroys something way more important.

 

[0XI0]

We actually pride ourselves

we pride yourself for the toybox

 

[Stone]

Woot !! Variac Its helping me Craft my VH1 Toanz

 

[Mongillo19]

we pride yourself for the toybox

Aren't you a tone master pro believer?

 

[mbenigni]

+1.

For anyone who isn't yet Team Fractal, this really deserves to be emphasized. The factory presets are all very good, to the point that it strikes me as a really weird flex to delete them first thing out of the box.

I still remember working my way thru them and loving all the amp tones....and then hitting the FX-oriented presets and being astonished.

First platform (in my decades of messing around with this stuff) where I’ve continued using the presets even weeks after getting started.

 

[FractalAudio]

Well it's not, otherwise I would not have reported this.
As I've reported with the JCM800, crank the Master to 10 and move the NFB form 0 to 10.
When NFB is on 10 the output volume is WAY louder than with NFB on 0, so it's overcompensating and only when the Master volume is cranked.
Something is not right.

I will always vouch for realistic and authentic behavior.
I get it, it prevents inexperienced users form asking too much question but all it does is destroys something way more important.

It depends on how much the power amp is distorting. It's impossible to know that because the input level is unknown so it simply assumes the power amp is not distorting.

For example if the forward gain is 10 and the feedback is 0.1 the closed-loop gain would be:
10/(10 + 1) = 0.91

If you remove the negative feedback the gain becomes 10. That's over 20 dB louder. Users would freak out if the volume changed by 20 dB over the range of the control.

So what happens is that the inverse of the closed-loop gain is applied after everything. If the feedback is 0.1 then 1/0.91 is applied at the output. If the feedback is 0 then 1/10 is applied at the output. The resulting output is then constant.

It doesn't "destroy" anything. It's at the output of the block so it's the same as turning the Level knob up or down.

 

[mbenigni]

Depends on the user and their needs. I have absolutely zero interest in presets on any modeller, be it Helix/Fractal/Neural DSP etc. Presets aren’t made for my tastes/gear, they’re just an assortment of tones that mean nothing to me.

It’s good they’re there for users that like working with them or get benefit from it, but I can totally understand working from a clean slate.

I guess part of the reason I scratch my head is because I can’t foresee running out of blank presets even as it arrives from the factory. How are people running through all these presets? Trying to keep writing sessions documented?

 

[FractalAudio]

I can add a switch to turn it off (the debug build actually has that because I use it during modeling) but it's actually kind of irritating because the volume drops so much when you turn the NFB up.

Either way you end up having to compensate with the Level control. You just end up compensating less with the way it is now.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I guess part of the reason I scratch my head is because I can’t foresee running out of blank presets even as it arrives from the factory. How are people running through all these presets? Trying to keep writing sessions documented?

It’s just more stuff that gets in the way, I don’t for see any situation where the stock presets will be useful for me so I’d rather put things there that do what I need than things I have to scroll past every time

 

[James Freeman]

It's impossible to know that because the input level is unknown so it simply assumes the power amp is not distorting.

Ah, now I understand. Thank you for the clear explanation.

I can add a switch to turn it off

PLEASE!

it's actually kind of irritating because the volume drops so much when you turn the NFB up.

I want that!
This is exactly what happens with a real tube amp and I expect it to happen in the Axe Fx too.

 

[FractalAudio]

we pride yourself for the toybox