Modeller enthusiasts who can't dial in patches

[Sascha Franck]

Presets are a great help to amateurs.

To be honest, I can't exactly agree with that - at least not in case fullblown presets are concerned.

Thing is, if you want to learn how to build your own presets, you'd likely have to reverse engineer existing ones if you really wanted them to be "helpful". But that very process in itself can be extremely cumbersome, especially as soon as there's some hidden things going on, such as parameters being modified in a kinda hidden way (as an example: snapshot/scene parameter modification) or such as complexed routings with lots of interaction going on.

Fwiw, I have been there when regarding synth patches. I had absolutely no clue what was happening back in the days and people told me to "study" some existing presets. Which really only worked in case they were super simple. As soon as OSC mixers, modulations, sync functions, FM and what not got involved, it all became totally foreign gibberish again.
What really helped me was some synth patch creation series in the german "Keyboards" mag (they even had their own softsynth so everybody was on the same page) and SOS mag's (still excellent) "Synth Secrets" series. Both of those were about exploring and understanding the guts - and I had sooo many "oh, so this is how it's done" moments no single preset examination could've ever caused.

I think it's the same with modeler presets. Watch some tutorials and start with the basics. Understand which amps are there for which kinda sounds (at least sort of), which cabs go best with them generally and how to tweak just those. Proceed with drives. Maybe add some compression. Then proceed with FX.
Very fortunately, this is a lot easier in the amp modeling world compared to synthesis (unless you're going for huge ambient patches).
So, I'd highly recommend looking for patch creation tutorials instead of purchasing presets.

And fwiw, very often presets don't work too well anyway, simply because your playing and guitars might feed them with quite different things than what the patch creator used.

 

[dronerstone]

People who give other people money for presets for Helix or Fractal or whatever make me sad.

This, sooooo much.

And: People who live off generating clicks and hawking presets to (gullible) others make me angry.

But I guess that's just like, my opinion, man.

 

[dronerstone]

Paying for presets is like paying $6 for Lunchables. Sure, you can just cut up the cheese and meats yourself for pennies in comparison, toss it all in a bag with some crackers. But you’re no peasant!! Pay for that convenience!

Paid presets are the Lunchables of the guitar world.

If musicians have trouble understanding basic routing (and then some), amp models, and fx categories, and don't feel like reading up about industry standards and classics, maybe they'd rather look for another hobby.

 

[la szum]

Presets are a great help to amateurs.

How did amateurs ever become pros prior to for sale presets hitting the market?

Jesus? Dumb luck? Historical anomaly??

 

[jay mitchell]

Paid presets are the Lunchables of the guitar world.

And every bit as appetizing....

 

[Moe45673]

How did amateurs ever become pros prior to for sale presets hitting the market?

Jesus? Dumb luck? Historical anomaly??

Actually, the pros of that era are on the same level of the best amateurs now. It's like when you watch 1920s football vs today.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I'm trying to come up with something even marginally redeemable about Lunchables, but I'm failing.

“Convenient”

 

[DrewJD82]

::laughs in organized collection of every amp in the AxeFX paired with an appropriate cab that would have taken me months of not writing/recording to do myself::

And I’ve smoked blunts that were more expensive than that pack was.

 

[Sascha Franck]

::laughs in organized collection of every amp in the AxeFX paired with an appropriate cab that would have taken me months of not writing/recording to do myself::

I wouldn't call these presets. At least not exactly. It's someone doing the organizing work for you.

 

[ragingplatypi]

Thinking about the comparison to keyboards- Bruce Hornsby figured out that he, Don Henley and Bruce Springsteen all use the same synth strings preset from the Yamaha DX7 on many hit songs. Factory presets. Could you imagine if we all were clambering to buy a Helix for one factory preset?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Thinking about the comparison to keyboards- Bruce Hornsby figured out that he, Don Henley and Bruce Springsteen all use the same synth strings preset from the Yamaha DX7 on many hit songs. Factory presets. Could you imagine if we all were clambering to buy a Helix for one factory preset?

I’m having much more fun imagining the reaction around here to a modeler with anything approaching a DX7 user interface…

 

[DrewJD82]

I wouldn't call these presets. At least not exactly. It's someone doing the organizing work for you.

No semantics tomfoolery.

This is what I purchased-

They’re presets someone else dialed in and did all the legwork. Sometimes I gotta tweak them and other times just trying a preset without touching it makes a song fall out.

Now I’ll agree that buying presets in sake of learning how to dial shit in is….not what I would do (I may have a hot take on a select group of capture/profile enthusiasts), but my perspective is entirely different than someone who started playing in this era of digital stuff. I was already dialing things in for over 25 years by the time I got a modeler, but if my first piece of gear was a modeler and I didn’t have years of gigging and recording behind me, how would I know how something is ”supposed” to sound?

I can understand the appeal from that perspective, it’s just not appealing to me and I did buy that preset pack mainly as an organizational tool, not for the specific sounds that were dialed in, to be fair.

 

[TSJMajesty]

other times just trying a preset without touching it makes a song fall out.

^^THIS, 1000%


Or, it's like the "change your own oil vs. paying someone to do it."

Lots of things one person chooses to buy and another chooses to do themselves, comes down to the differences in their person value of their own time.

 

[Sascha Franck]

but if my first piece of gear was a modeler and I didn’t have years of gigging and recording behind me, how would I know how something is ”supposed” to sound?

Sure - but do presets really help with that?

 

[Achilles]

Sure - but do presets really help with that?

Ask a dozen random players using their own home playback systems to audition the same dozen presets and you'll find the answer is not very often.

 

[DrewJD82]

Sure - but do presets really help with that?

If they're making music with 'em, it's doing what it's supposed to do. Anything outside of that is subjective debates about hypothetical guitarists dialing in hypothetical gear. Show me actual evidence that presets had a negative effect on someone's musical output and I'll maybe agree, but as long as people are inspired to play, it's none of my concern how they get there.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Show me actual evidence that presets had a negative effect on someone's musical output and I'll maybe agree, but as long as people are inspired to play, it's none of my concern how they get there.

I'm not saying presets have a negative impact on whomever. What I'm saying is that you learn to use the tools at your disposal a lot quicker when you actually try to understand what they do. Now, in case that's nothing people want to achieve, more power to them. For me, being able to dial in my own sounds is worth quite something, though.

 

[jay mitchell]

For me, being able to dial in my own sounds is worth quite something, though.

For me, since my very earliest experiences with electric guitar, it has always been an essential part of knowing how to play the instrument. But then I did build my first amp.

Checking out someone's specific effects settings can be very beneficial, but that benefit is maximized when you spend the time required to learn why a person made those specific choices.

 

[Achilles]

What does "can't dial in patches" even mean? Would the same person struggle if given an amp, cab, and some FX pedals? Do they not know how to use a compressor correctly? Are we talking a person who's fundamentally challenged when it comes to understanding modulation and equalization or someone not good a operating multi-function units?

It's easier to understand something like Michael Britt selling profiles of his ridiculous amp collection but paying to have someone else adjust your tone stack and delay/reverb settings and whether it's in front of the amp or in the loop?

 

[Orvillain]

For me, since my very earliest experiences with electric guitar, it has always been an essential part of knowing how to play the instrument. But then I did build my first amp.

Yeah, same. I have a bit of an unusual background with guitar, because I didn't start playing until I was 19.

Prior to that, I was into sound design, electronic music, synths, samplers, software.... for me, I bring all of that to my guitar playing, and guitar is often less about the notes for me, than it is the tones.

Never been particularly interested in being a drop-dead gorgeous stellar amazeballs guitarist. I just want to create moods, and tone is how you do it.