Mesa Dual Rectifier vs 8 modelers!

[GuitarJon]

I wanted to do a new comparison of my MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier vs 8 modeling platforms. No profilers, just hardware amp modelers. Some of the results weren't surprising (like the Axe Fx III for example) but some of them REALLY surprised me in a nice way! I think we've come a long way and many of the platforms are still improving! Anyway, very curious as to what you guys think... I think you might be surprised at some of them

 

[the swede]

I’ll just copy paste my tgp post, and add some.

Wow, first time ever for me, that i honestly think the real amp sounds way much better than any of the modelers. I usually consider my self to not have the knowledge about amps enough to have an opinion. Like… I accept the modelers sound because I often don’t know what the real world version of a model sounds like, I’m just not “listened in” enough on certain amps.

But yeah… in this case, everything sounds better from the real amp. I’m hearing details in the lows and highs that the modelers seems to treat different from the amp. And also different from each other.

But I agree and clearly hear that every modelers version share the same dna or recipe with the real amp. Headrush points out it’s nose with that “saggy” tonality that it has in all its models (good or bad I don’t know) but the other modelers (Helix) sound closer, and the tmp sounds pretty darn good to me.


Awesome review!

 

[GTR37]

I wanted to do a new comparison of my MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier vs 8 modeling platforms. No profilers, just hardware amp modelers. Some of the results weren't surprising (like the Axe Fx III for example) but some of them REALLY surprised me in a nice way! I think we've come a long way and many of the platforms are still improving! Anyway, very curious as to what you guys think... I think you might be surprised at some of them

First off nice job on getting that ton out of a Recto with no boost

Anyway , I would have to go with the Fractal and Neural
The Hotone sounds a little more almost like blanketed and the Helix I felt a little bloated in the low
The St Rock was good
Headrest as you said was kind of Flat
The worst of the bunch was @JiveTurkey Favourite all time Boss recto , that kind of brought the stink for me , and I hate to same something sounds"digital" but to my ears it was pretty sterile and with a nasal cocked was sound in the mids

The surprises for me , well NDSP because frankly when I bought the Cortex at Launch that model the SLO and VH4 were pretty much unusable
so its obvious got me when they updated the SLO and VH4 they obviously updated the Recto behind the scenes as well . because it sounded nothing close to a Recto and now IMO it holds it own against the Fractal in top spot .

The other surprise you can probably guess since I have not mentioned it yet was the Fender , its actually beat out the hotone and the Helix for me maybe was slightly behind FAS and QC but a few tweaks and you could probably get them even closer
based on the recent update the the 5153 and new models , I like where fender is going kudos to them for taking a pile of crap online and staying focused on moving fwd and doing so it appears so far, successfully

 

[GuitarJon]

I’ll just copy paste my tgp post, and add some.

Wow, first time ever for me, that i honestly think the real amp sounds way much better than any of the modelers. I usually consider my self to not have the knowledge about amps enough to have an opinion. Like… I accept the modelers sound because I often don’t know what the real world version of a model sounds like, I’m just not “listened in” enough on certain amps.

But yeah… in this case, everything sounds better from the real amp. I’m hearing details in the lows and highs that the modelers seems to treat different from the amp. And also different from each other.

But I agree and clearly hear that every modelers version share the same dna or recipe with the real amp. Headrush points out it’s nose with that “saggy” tonality that it has in all its models (good or bad I don’t know) but the other modelers (Helix) sound closer, and the tmp sounds pretty darn good to me.


Awesome review!

I rarely ever post at the other place anymore but I thought I'd give it a shot ...

Anyway, the Rectifier is an interesting amp. It's so raw and I know a lot of people don't like it. I'm sure that many people will prefer some of the amp models because of that.

 

[GuitarJon]

First off nice job on getting that ton out of a Recto with no boost

Anyway , I would have to go with the Fractal and Neural
The Hotone sounds a little more almost like blanketed and the Helix I felt a little bloated in the low
The St Rock was good
Headrest as you said was kind of Flat
The worst of the bunch was @JiveTurkey Favourite all time Boss recto , that kind of brought the stink for me , and I hate to same something sounds"digital" but to my ears it was pretty sterile and with a nasal cocked was sound in the mids

The surprises for me , well NDSP because frankly when I bought the Cortex at Launch that model the SLO and VH4 were pretty much unusable
so its obvious got me when they updated the SLO and VH4 they obviously updated the Recto behind the scenes as well . because it sounded nothing close to a Recto and now IMO it holds it own against the Fractal in top spot .

The other surprise you can probably guess since I have not mentioned it yet was the Fender , its actually beat out the hotone and the Helix for me maybe was slightly behind FAS and QC but a few tweaks and you could probably get them even closer
based on the recent update the the 5153 and new models , I like where fender is going kudos to them for taking a pile of crap online and staying focused on moving fwd and doing so it appears so far, successfully

For me, the Fractal was expected to sound good. I'm still pleasantly surprised at the "old" Helix model but the QC came out awesome indeed! Much better than how it was before. TMP was very impressive too, so cool how my opinion has changed these past months!

 

[GuitarJon]

Oh regarding the GT-1000: I like the unit, it has some very strong amp models like the Juggernaut for example while other amps are lacking. However, someone told me that high resolution IRs don't sound good in it for some reason... didn't know that.

 

[MindCrime]

For me, the Fractal was expected to sound good. I'm still pleasantly surprised at the "old" Helix model but the QC came out awesome indeed! Much better than how it was before. TMP was very impressive too, so cool how my opinion has changed these past months!

@GuitarJon I agree 100% with your assessment. Fractal, QC & Helix all scored very well. But the TMP was the big surprise, at least for me anyway.

Seems like Fender is picking up the pace !

 

[GuitarJon]

Seems like Fender is picking up the pace !

It's impressive and I like it!

 

[Orvillain]

Copying my YT comments:
Absolutely love the Recto models on the Axe FX III. They're stellar.

QC recto sounds bad to me. Too much bass.

Ampero sounds like it has a blanket over the speaker.

I really wasn't expecting to like the Helix at all. I've never gotten along with it myself. But actually, even though it sounds different, it sounds epic.(btw I also own a 2018 multi-watt DR amp!)

Amperium is quite cool. I don't know much about it, but it sounds good to me!

Fender TMP - I was actually shocked at how decent it sounds!!

Headrush Prime sounds a bit 'meh' to me. Doesn't have the excitement of the others, and doesn't match the real amp well at all really. Sounds like some speaker impedance curve nonsense going on to me. It could be a lot better.

The Boss GT1000 just sounds nothing like a rectifier. It is crap.

 

[Desertdweller]

Absolutely love the Recto models on the Axe FX III. They're stellar.

Truth. I can get the Fractal recto models to sound 1:1 with my recorded Dual Rec tracks from the real amp. In the room through a 4x12 the real amp still kills, but recorded it’s hard to tell a difference.

 

[GuitarJon]

Truth. I can get the Fractal recto models to sound 1:1 with my recorded Dual Rec tracks from the real amp. In the room through a 4x12 the real amp still kills, but recorded it’s hard to tell a difference.

Yeah, those are killer!

 

[Los-D]

My take: TMP really surprised me. Usual suspects sound great. Fractal is still king.

 

[ejecta]

 

[Stone]

Always interesting comparisons, I like the fractal because I own one and love the toanz and the workflow and the deep parameters, for my needs its all I require, if one might sound better slightly I still would not replace my Fractal FM9

 

[LCW]

I wanted to do a new comparison of my MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier vs 8 modeling platforms. No profilers, just hardware amp modelers. Some of the results weren't surprising (like the Axe Fx III for example) but some of them REALLY surprised me in a nice way! I think we've come a long way and many of the platforms are still improving! Anyway, very curious as to what you guys think... I think you might be surprised at some of them

Jon - don't forget (or maybe you tried it) the Tremoverb (CA Tremo Orange & Red) in the QC is quite good. It's basically a 2ch Dual Rec with tremolo and reverb (the real amp that is). Quick compare is Preset 8E (CA Rec Shootout). Just FYI. If you know all this, apologies.

 

[ian_dissonance]

And just like every other Mesa, it only sounds good to me when other people play it.

 

[GuitarJon]

Jon - don't forget (or maybe you tried it) the Tremoverb (CA Tremo Orange & Red) in the QC is quite good. It's basically a 2ch Dual Rec with tremolo and reverb (the real amp that is). Quick compare is Preset 8E (CA Rec Shootout). Just FYI. If you know all this, apologies.

I remember didn't liking those the last time I tried them but I'll definitely give them another go!

 

[EOengineer]

Didn’t watch the video but I have to imagine part of the reason we see such variability in Dual/Triple Rec models is because there are a half dozen variants across the 2 channel Rev A through Rev G, then the 3 channel models, multi-watt, etc.

There are significant tonal differences there. Unless the modeler is very specific about which model they referenced - who knows what you’re getting.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Finally listening, thoughts as I go:

- Axe FX is a little underwhelming. Its similar in a lot of ways, but also smaller sounding. Not sure if its just a bit darker and the bass is less dynamic? Gain also feels different too, like the Axe FX has less. I feel like the Recto can usually get extremely close but it requires quite a lot of back and forth with tweaking to get a close match (which can drive anyone insane). When isolated, the real amp has a certain midrange thing around 400-600hz that is different on the Axe FX. Often the midrange honk on a recto comes from the master volume setting in my experience.

- similarish thing with the NDSP model, its sort of like a Rectifier without being a close match to your sound. Again less dynamic than the real amp, and smaller sounding. This one absolutely sounds like an impedance difference to me too, the voicing is kind of different.

- Hotone is disappointing. Lacks the recto fizz, sounds more like a generic high gain tone than the characteristics of a recto (someone could tell me thats a tweaked 5150 or friedman or anything else and I wouldn't question it). Almost sounds like its going through another IR on top, which again makes me think "impedance curve"

- Helix gets a lot right, but it has that dead giveaway "Helix fizz" that you notice particularly on older models. If that got a refresh with their most up to date tech, they'd be super close. Maybe the best so far, but the fizz just stands out.

- Amperium Live, was excited to hear this one as its a new kid on the block. Sort of like some of the ones above, more smoothed out and less raw and aggressive than the real amp. Fizz is lacking, guessing again its largely an impedance difference, but IMO a Recto NEEDS the fizz and OTT low end for it to be correct. Feels like it has less gain and its pokier in the upper mids.

- TMP has a very close voicing but its like the low end doesn't bounce at all. Gain and top end were actually quite close which is hard to get right. This one also seemed to sound more mono than the others so far

- Headrush sounds broken. My experience with Revalver in 2024 is that it sounds like incredibly dated tech and that seems to apply here too. Sort of like a cartoon of a Rectifier but no accuracy at all really (where it matters).

- Boss. Oh lordy. Sounds comb filtered and hollowed out. Almost like they were like "Rectifier? oh yeah I know what they sound like, we won't even need to use schematics or compare to one". Sounds maybe what someone thinks a Recto might sound like if they'd never heard one before. A bit like Headrush where it gives modelling a bad name - has all the traits and tropes of digital that so many companies have since fixed. There is no need for anyone to be dealing with tones like this any more.

There's lots and pro's and con's between each of them. My gut feeling is that the Axe FX can nail it, but with the caveat of having to get your hands dirty to get there. It also requires some technical knowledge to know where and what to adjust to get it right, while the others can get very close without needing to deep dive. Tough call between the other "good" ones, they'd do the job and fit the bill for most situations and you just have to pick which area you compromise. There's always the caveat of how they're dialled in, and on any given day that could vary things a bit. I think the amount of time and effort it takes is important though - the beauty of amps is how immediate and direct they are to use.

Annoyingly overall, if I was in a studio environment, I don't think there is a strong case to not use the amp. It sounds better with the least amount of fuss. A lot of the modellers sound good, but the amp always wins here.

Good test, I enjoyed it. I'm curious how TC's pedal holds up, and obviously I have a preference for plugins and there are new Recto plugins being released all the time too.


This test REALLY made me notice how much of modelling that amp gets overlooked. Where are the other channels and modes? I love the Red modern mode as much as anyone but the Recto is so much more than that. Do any modellers really give the feeling of covering the entire amp?

 

[GuitarJon]

Finally listening, thoughts as I go:

- Axe FX is a little underwhelming. Its similar in a lot of ways, but also smaller sounding. Not sure if its just a bit darker and the bass is less dynamic? Gain also feels different too, like the Axe FX has less. I feel like the Recto can usually get extremely close but it requires quite a lot of back and forth with tweaking to get a close match (which can drive anyone insane). When isolated, the real amp has a certain midrange thing around 400-600hz that is different on the Axe FX. Often the midrange honk on a recto comes from the master volume setting in my experience.

- similarish thing with the NDSP model, its sort of like a Rectifier without being a close match to your sound. Again less dynamic than the real amp, and smaller sounding. This one absolutely sounds like an impedance difference to me too, the voicing is kind of different.

- Hotone is disappointing. Lacks the recto fizz, sounds more like a generic high gain tone than the characteristics of a recto (someone could tell me thats a tweaked 5150 or friedman or anything else and I wouldn't question it). Almost sounds like its going through another IR on top, which again makes me think "impedance curve"

- Helix gets a lot right, but it has that dead giveaway "Helix fizz" that you notice particularly on older models. If that got a refresh with their most up to date tech, they'd be super close. Maybe the best so far, but the fizz just stands out.

- Amperium Live, was excited to hear this one as its a new kid on the block. Sort of like some of the ones above, more smoothed out and less raw and aggressive than the real amp. Fizz is lacking, guessing again its largely an impedance difference, but IMO a Recto NEEDS the fizz and OTT low end for it to be correct. Feels like it has less gain and its pokier in the upper mids.

- TMP has a very close voicing but its like the low end doesn't bounce at all. Gain and top end were actually quite close which is hard to get right. This one also seemed to sound more mono than the others so far

- Headrush sounds broken. My experience with Revalver in 2024 is that it sounds like incredibly dated tech and that seems to apply here too. Sort of like a cartoon of a Rectifier but no accuracy at all really (where it matters).

- Boss. Oh lordy. Sounds comb filtered and hollowed out. Almost like they were like "Rectifier? oh yeah I know what they sound like, we won't even need to use schematics or compare to one". Sounds maybe what someone thinks a Recto might sound like if they'd never heard one before. A bit like Headrush where it gives modelling a bad name - has all the traits and tropes of digital that so many companies have since fixed. There is no need for anyone to be dealing with tones like this any more.

There's lots and pro's and con's between each of them. My gut feeling is that the Axe FX can nail it, but with the caveat of having to get your hands dirty to get there. It also requires some technical knowledge to know where and what to adjust to get it right, while the others can get very close without needing to deep dive. Tough call between the other "good" ones, they'd do the job and fit the bill for most situations and you just have to pick which area you compromise. There's always the caveat of how they're dialled in, and on any given day that could vary things a bit. I think the amount of time and effort it takes is important though - the beauty of amps is how immediate and direct they are to use.

Annoyingly overall, if I was in a studio environment, I don't think there is a strong case to not use the amp. It sounds better with the least amount of fuss. A lot of the modellers sound good, but the amp always wins here.

Good test, I enjoyed it. I'm curious how TC's pedal holds up, and obviously I have a preference for plugins and there are new Recto plugins being released all the time too.


This test REALLY made me notice how much of modelling that amp gets overlooked. Where are the other channels and modes? I love the Red modern mode as much as anyone but the Recto is so much more than that. Do any modellers really give the feeling of covering the entire amp?

Thanks for the detailed review! You make some good points here for sure!