Line 6 is now pricing itself near fractal territory, will be interesting to see what they bring to the table?

[[Nathan]]

At risk of doing an about face and over-emphasizing the importance of a touchscreen… First, obviously, the touchscreen is a sort of “first domino to fall”, making so many other UI elements possible, as demonstrated in the Stadium’s design.

But, while I wouldn’t use the word “game-changing”, I do think that the touchscreen on the QC was a substantial, if incremental, improvement. I get that NDSP borrowed heavily from Helix and never properly acknowledged as much - and that you are justifiably pissed off about that. But for all the professional generosity you’ve extended to other competitors over the years, I’ve never seen you acknowledge the actual improvements in UX that the QC brought to the table. (The global setup view alone deserves honorable mention IMO.)

NOT that you owe NDSP anything, but it is what it is. I would have saved a lot of coin if I didn’t like the QC, so this can’t all be in my head.

The QC was small/sleek, had a touch screen, rotary encoders, profiling + modelling
IMO it was pretty gamechanging compared to the competition at the time. Heck even right now no other modeller has (good) profiling + modelling. I know we dunk on the timeline rollout but as someone who happens to own a bunch of their plugins, being able to use those on the unit is also unique... credit where credit is due on the QC, it isn't just a [insert modeller] clone.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I wonder if anybody at line 6, who plays a fractal dials things in and says wow that sound or that effect just kicks our butt because for some reason I think if it was the other way around, I don’t think Cliff would have that same idea or notion or opinion

I think everyone at Line 6 and Fractal sit down with each other’s gear, and think “damn, I wonder what will actually make Timbuck stop posting weird unrelated videos in threads, and actually buy a modeler?”

 

[mbenigni]

The QC was small/sleek, had a touch screen, rotary encoders, profiling + modelling
IMO it was pretty gamechanging compared to the competition at the time. Heck even right now no other modeller has (good) profiling + modelling. I know we dunk on the timeline rollout but as someone who happens to own a bunch of their plugins, being able to use those on the unit is also unique... credit where credit is due on the QC, it isn't just a [insert modeller] clone.

Taken as a whole, I agree. It was certainly a game-changer for me (to whatever extent I was even in the game LOL.)

My comments above were solely to do with the (on-screen) UI, which - particularly in the edit grid and performance views - are conspicuously similar to Helix. Of course, I’ve also argued in the past that once you’ve seen/used Helix, a lot of those design decisions become inevitable simply because they make sense. (Especially considering how similar the hardware is in many regards.) Some of those ideas have precedents pre-Helix as well, but that’s a whole discussion unto itself.

 

[GTR37]

I think everyone at Line 6 and Fractal sit down with each other’s gear, and think “damn, I wonder what will actually make Timbuck stop posting weird unrelated videos in threads, and actually buy a modeler?”

I hear from and inside source that the this is the theme for NAMM this year , everyone is competing for Timbucks $$$$

 

[timbuck3]

Here we goI think everyone at Line 6 and Fractal sit down with each other’s gear, and think “damn, I wonder what will actually make Timbuck stop posting weird unrelated videos in threads, and actually buy a modeler?”

 

[Sascha Franck]

Line6 and Fractal already had a similarly priced unit in the same class: Helix and FM9

Over here, the Helix Floor is €1,199 and the FM9 is €2,249.
Yes, the difference has been smaller, but it has always been at least 500-600. But that's largely got to to with G66 being greedy fucks - one of the reasons I never exactly considered any FAS unit. A company working with greedy fucks doesn't get my money.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I know we dunk on the timeline rollout but as someone who happens to own a bunch of their plugins, being able to use those on the unit is also unique

Err... Helix Native anyone?

 

[Elf]

Too much money for me, I will patiently wait for the Stadium Stomp if it ever comes and they keep the same policy of the firmwares being compatible between the Stadium family of devices, if they follow FAS where the updates are prioritized from top to bottom I’m out.

 

[[Nathan]]

Err... Helix Native anyone?

Good call, I always forget I have helix native because I can't get on with the UI. Hopefully there's a Stadium update or brand new VST thats a bit more modern and user friendly.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Good call, I always forget I have helix native because I can't get on with the UI. Hopefully there's a Stadium update or brand new VST thats a bit more modern and user friendly.

We could also sort of add Tonex to the list. Sure, it's not modeling but captures, but all of its settings transfer to the hardware as well.
And unlike with the QC, things work in either direction for both Helix and Tonex.
Needless to say that the best implementation is done by Line 6. By far even. Just the handling of IRs is done better by Tonex (as you don't have to load them into whatever item twice).

 

[Sedaxel]

In Europe, A fractal unit is A LOT of money. I mean... A LOT.

I guess that´s why I´ve barely seen one myself (I think I never saw a Fractal in person... ever).

 

[sashimi]

If Helix Stadium Native still has sliders that are affected by the mouse scroll wheel I definitely won’t be happy. By now I have learned to keep my finger off the scroll wheel, but it took a long time to break the habit of trying to scroll down and inadvertently changing random parameters. That’s really my only problem with Helix Native, and it would be such an easy fix with a software update. Just add a toggle in settings to turn off the scroll wheel on the damn sliders. I know Line 6 must be well aware of this complaint but I have never seen an explanation for it staying that way. Other than that I think native is very easy to use.

 

[Tanax]

Over here, the Helix Floor is €1,199 and the FM9 is €2,249.
Yes, the difference has been smaller, but it has always been at least 500-600. But that's largely got to to with G66 being greedy fucks - one of the reasons I never exactly considered any FAS unit. A company working with greedy fucks doesn't get my money.

Yeah, I don't think people in the US understands just how much G66 adds on top.

FM9 in the US is $1800, with Swedish VAT (25%) it's $2250. Or €1930.
But on G66, FM9 costs €2360. That's almost a 20% markup of over €400.

"But but, it's because they provide multiple years of warranty!"
No.

Compare Line6 Helix in US, it's $1300 on Sweetwater, with Swedish VAT it's $1625. Or €1393.
On Thomann, Helix costs... €1232. And that's also including 3 years of warranty and great return policies plus super friendly support.

I don't have anything against the people working at G66, the dealings I had with them were great. But so has the dealings I've had with other stores, like Thomann, so it's not like G66 is anything special in that regards.

 

[Sedaxel]

Yeah, I don't think people in the US understands just how much G66 adds on top.

FM9 in the US is $1800, with Swedish VAT (25%) it's $2250. Or €1930.
But on G66, FM9 costs €2360. That's almost a 20% markup of over €400.

"But but, it's because they provide multiple years of warranty!"
No.

Compare Line6 Helix in US, it's $1300 on Sweetwater, with Swedish VAT it's $1625. Or €1393.
On Thomann, Helix costs... €1232. And that's also including 3 years of warranty and great return policies plus super friendly support.

I don't have anything against the people working at G66, the dealings I had with them were great. But so has the dealings I've had with other stores, like Thomann, so it's not like G66 is anything special in that regards.

Yeah... I would say that Fractal is almost inexistent in Europe because of the prohibitibe comercial strategy.

Of course, some people own a Farctal. But I´m talking about big numbers. I think that, with a proper comercial treatment, they would have had a massive market presence.