Line 6 is now pricing itself near fractal territory, will be interesting to see what they bring to the table?

[mbenigni]

Nah. I think Neural, Kemper and Boss should be panicking.

Kemper sales will likely taper off after Proxy is available, but I get the impression that CK barely cares. Initial R&D on the KPA has long since depreciated, and they’ve seen SO much return on that investment. (No idea what the MkII punt is all about, though.) Meanwhile, Kemper faithful will continue recording and gigging KPAs for a long while, because of all the “known good” profile content.

Boss has such a diverse product line and has never thought twice about dead-ending products in the past. They will pivot effortlessly.

NDSP is in a tough spot with QC, and as much as I wish this were not true, I can only foresee the QC’s lifespan being cut short. They don’t seem to have the development bandwidth to ever compete feature-wise with Stadium, and I don’t think they have enough margin to reduce prices to where the QC won’t be forever in the smaller Stadium’s shadow.

 

[Jarick]

Kemper sales will likely taper off after Proxy is available, but I get the impression that CK barely cares. Initial R&D on the KPA has long since depreciated, and they’ve seen SO much return on that investment. (No idea what the MkII punt is all about, though.) Meanwhile, Kemper faithful will continue recording and gigging KPAs for a long while, because of all the “known good” profile content.

Boss has such a diverse product line and has never thought twice about dead-ending products in the past. They will pivot effortlessly.

NDSP is in a tough spot with QC, and much as I wish this were not true, I can only foresee the QC’s lifespan being cut short. They don’t seem to have the development bandwidth to ever compete feature-wise with Stadium, and I don’t think they have enough margin to reduce prices to where the QC isn’t always in the smaller Stadium’s shadow.

I think Kemper could get a big lease on life by releasing a plugin version. That would do away with their biggest shortfall right now which is onboard UI.

 

[mbenigni]

the main improvement I see with the stadium is the whole interface Which has now caught up to most other people in modeling. I remember digital igloo had said that they had planned a touchscreen originally but for some reason, they ditch that idea back then like 11 years ago

No, no, for the thousandth time, no.

They haven’t caught up, they’ve leapfrogged the competition considerably in terms of UI/UX. I wouldn’t be paying attention otherwise.

You keep implying that the key consideration here is who has and who hasn’t glued a touchscreen to the top of their product, when in fact that is a tiny fraction of user interface design.

I’m now figuratively blue in the face, so im going to make like Thomas Blug and put a lid on it.

 

[mbenigni]

I think Kemper could get a big lease on life by releasing a plugin version. That would do away with their biggest shortfall right now which is onboard UI.

They’d kind of be out of the frying pan into the fire with all of the new competition (ToneX, NAM) in that space, though. And it would arguably disincentivize keeping Kemper hardware on hand for those still married to specific profiles.

I agree a Kemper plug-in would be cool, but it’s something they should have done 5 years ago.

 

[timbuck3]

No, no, for the thousandth time, no.

They haven’t caught up, they’ve leapfrogged the competition considerably in terms of UI/UX. I wouldn’t be paying attention otherwise.

You keep implying that the key consideration here is who has and who hasn’t glued a touchscreen to the top of their product, when in fact that is a tiny fraction of user interface design.

I’m now figuratively blue in the face, so im going to make like Thomas Blug and put a lid on it.

View attachment 52804

Geez… I will admit that this interface is probably better than any of the interfaces to this date that our touchscreen and if that leapfrogging fine but my point was that touchscreens are the way of the future on modelers. That’s why that blue amp X thing is gonna be crap and it fractal doesn’t jump on board with a touchscreen. It’ll still be really good but it still won’t Garner the following that helix has.

 

[Chocol8]

They’d kind of be out of the frying pan into the fire with all of the new competition (ToneX, NAM) in that space, though. And it would arguably disincentivize keeping Kemper hardware on hand for those still married to specific profiles.

I agree a Kemper plug-in would be cool, but it’s something they should have done 5 years ago.

Kemper would get crushed in the plugin space! I don't think they have any interest in entering a new market where they will be an also-ran.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Kemper would get crushed in the plugin space! I don't think they have any interest in entering a new market where they will be an also-ran.

If they made it $40 everyone who already bought a Kemper would buy it and everyone with any sort of recording space that might work with other people would buy it. They don’t need to innovate in that space, they just need to have their already established profiles in a DAW. I know quite a few studios and smaller guys who bought Tonex software because clients would be sending them sessions with it. It’s pretty much the only reason I would consider reinstalling my Waves shit, just because it’s so common.

 

[RGB]

Waiting for the Stadium to be released so I can pick up a used Helix at a great price...

Same here...I have a JTV59 that would match up nicely...and I don't have to buy a separate unit to use it.

 

[Digital Igloo]

...the main improvement I see with the stadium is the whole interface Which has now caught up to most other people in modeling. I remember digital igloo had said that they had planned a touchscreen originally but for some reason, they ditch that idea back then like 11 years ago so it’s just the way it is prices are high and going higher on things like this...

I know you're not saying this Tim, but the whole "Company X, Y, or Z created the best UI because they took a massive chunk of Helix's UI and feature implementation... but added a touchscreen!" has always been the dumbest take imaginable. As if tapping items to select, dragging items to move, QWERTY text entry... but almost no other touch-based affordances is game-changing. Y'know, stuff everyone (including Line 6) did in their iOS apps and digital mixers almost 15 years ago.

What's kind of funny/sad is that had we gotten the touchscreen Helix we wanted, others might've copied Focus view, XY controllers, preset info, pinch/zoom song/clip waveforms, and [stuff we can't yet divulge] by now. And who knows? Maybe that would've forced us to make Stadium look like a 3rd generation flagship instead of 2nd generation. Admittedly, quite a bit of Stadium's UI was chosen for familiarity; we'd have done things very differently had a touchscreen been there from the beginning.

 

[mbenigni]

Geez… I will admit that this interface is probably better than any of the interfaces oto this date that our touchscreen and if that leapfrogging fine but my point was that touchscreens are the way of the future on modelers. That’s why that blue amp X thing is gonna be crap and it fractal doesn’t jump on board with a touchscreen. It’ll still be really good but it still won’t Garner the following that helix has.

Say “touchscreen” again.

 

[mbenigni]

I know you're not saying this Tim, but the whole "Company X, Y, or Z created the best UI because they took a massive chunk of Helix's UI and feature implementation... but added a touchscreen!" has always been the dumbest take imaginable. As if tapping items to select, dragging items to move, QWERTY text entry... but almost no other touch-based affordances is game-changing.

At risk of doing an about face and over-emphasizing the importance of a touchscreen… First, obviously, the touchscreen is a sort of “first domino to fall”, making so many other UI elements possible, as demonstrated in the Stadium’s design.

But, while I wouldn’t use the word “game-changing”, I do think that the touchscreen on the QC was a substantial, if incremental, improvement. I get that NDSP borrowed heavily from Helix and never properly acknowledged as much - and that you are justifiably pissed off about that. But for all the professional generosity you’ve extended to other competitors over the years, I’ve never seen you acknowledge the actual improvements in UX that the QC brought to the table. (The global setup view alone deserves honorable mention IMO.)

NOT that you owe NDSP anything, but it is what it is. I would have saved a lot of coin if I didn’t like the QC, so this can’t all be in my head.

 

[mbenigni]

Kemper would get crushed in the plugin space! I don't think they have any interest in entering a new market where they will be an also-ran.

I only occasionally get the impression that CK “has an interest” in being in any market whatsoever.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'm really not sure anyone in 2025 is going into a store and looking at the options and coming home with a GT-1000.

Nobody will do that.
There might be some incentives to buy it, though - but really only once you've done your research homework. Such as was the case for me. I bought it to basically work exactly the same way as I'm actually using it right now. Oh yes, I *did* expect some amps to sound (or rather feel) better, but still, it fits pretty much perfectly in the way my setup is organized right now. But it took quite some tinkering to make it work.

I think Kemper could get a big lease on life by releasing a plugin version. That would do away with their biggest shortfall right now which is onboard UI.

I actually think the Kemper onboard UI is dead easy to use. In fact, I always found it pretty excellent. But that's likely also got to do with the routing options being pretty simple.

 

[sashimi]

 

[Alex Kenivel]

The Fractal Axe Fx III Mark II Turbo has a list price of $2499.99

The new Line 6 Helix Stadium XL has a list price of $2199.99

About three hundred dollars less than a Axe Fx III.

It seems like line 6 is aiming for more professionals and people that use fractal products

I'm no expert but I don't think companies choose these price points to market to each other's customers.

will the new line 6 stadium XL gear bring something that is a serious contender to Fractal?

I don't think they're necessarily trying to contend with Fractal gear for all they have to offer. They're obviously both guitar amp and affect modeling systems but each paradigm goes about it way differently.

I think each company's real differentiator is how a user interacts with the device. I have a Helix and an Axe FX3 and a gravitate towards my Helix when I'm in my artistic work flow and gravitate towards my Axe when I'm in my more precision/engineering/tweaker zone

 

[Jarick]

I know you're not saying this Tim, but the whole "Company X, Y, or Z created the best UI because they took a massive chunk of Helix's UI and feature implementation... but added a touchscreen!" has always been the dumbest take imaginable. As if tapping items to select, dragging items to move, QWERTY text entry... but almost no other touch-based affordances is game-changing. Y'know, stuff everyone (including Line 6) did in their iOS apps and digital mixers almost 15 years ago.

What's kind of funny/sad is that had we gotten the touchscreen Helix we wanted, others might've copied Focus view, XY controllers, preset info, pinch/zoom song/clip waveforms, and [stuff we can't yet divulge] by now. And who knows? Maybe that would've forced us to make Stadium look like a 3rd generation flagship instead of 2nd generation. Admittedly, quite a bit of Stadium's UI was chosen for familiarity; we'd have done things very differently had a touchscreen been there from the beginning.

I just think it's kind of funny (and a solid tip of the cap) that "they ripped off Helix" is kind of shorthand for "they actually implemented a quality user interface design".

 

[timbuck3]

I know you're not saying this Tim, but the whole "Company X, Y, or Z created the best UI because they took a massive chunk of Helix's UI and feature implementation... but added a touchscreen!" has always been the dumbest take imaginable. As if tapping items to select, dragging items to move, QWERTY text entry... but almost no other touch-based affordances is game-changing. Y'know, stuff everyone (including Line 6) did in their iOS apps and digital mixers almost 15 years ago.

What's kind of funny/sad is that had we gotten the touchscreen Helix we wanted, others might've copied Focus view, XY controllers, preset info, pinch/zoom song/clip waveforms, and [stuff we can't yet divulge] by now. And who knows? Maybe that would've forced us to make Stadium look like a 3rd generation flagship instead of 2nd generation. Admittedly, quite a bit of Stadium's UI was chosen for familiarity; we'd have done things very differently had a touchscreen been there from the beginning.

For what it’s worth from what I’ve seen the helix touchscreen his leaps and bounds above any other touchscreen available right now whether it’s head, rush, fender, or any of the other smaller brands
I mean, it’s a no-brainer how well thought out it seems to be and all the different things you can do within it
It would’ve been interesting to see encoder on switches, but maybe you really don’t need them with all those knobs underneath the screen and the screen is huge
Like I said originally, I returned my original helix before you guys really did the upgrades to where it is now so when I pick up the stadium, it basically should be the helix and it’s final stages so to speak plus the newer engine involved, which will only grow over time so for meif I get the stadium XL and I don’t find the tones appealing to me or the effects in anyway, then the line sound is just not for me and I’m really nobody so my opinion only matters to myself, but that’s kind of where I’m at
I did try the head rush and I liked the interface but I didn’t find the tones or the effects really up to par for me and I did have the GT 1000 but I really didn’t care for the interface and I only enjoy the X amps the regular amps were not that great to me
However, I do have two katana Mark threes that I play in stereo hooked up together, which I do enjoy playing through as for the amp in the room sound so I’m hoping I can plug the helix into this set up somehow and get stereo running using the internal katana amps

 

[TubeStack]

There’s always going to be crazy people with thousands of posts on Internet forums who have tons of gear already and still compulsively buy more stuff just to have it.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Line6 and Fractal already had a similarly priced unit in the same class: Helix and FM9

 

[timbuck3]

I wonder if anybody at line 6, who plays a fractal dials things in and says wow that sound or that effect just kicks our butt because for some reason I think if it was the other way around, I don’t think Cliff would have that same idea or notion or opinion