Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[fiftyshadesofslay]

That’s a serious concern. I get there’s more CPU on the other line but that pretty much rules out being able to run complex presets with Proxy, or being able run multiple chains for other instruments. For reference the QC doesn’t have as much of a limitation as the
Stadium, especially when it comes to multiple captures.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'm doing some proxy captures of pedals and I gotta say... hitting a preset limit with a single pedal capture and I cant use the EVH Panama Agoura model, not impressed.

Gotta say that in general I'm pretty unimpressed by how little CPU juice there is to be had in most hardware modelers. I mean, I can run 3-4 maxed out instances of HX Native on a single thread of a Macbook Air M3. And over the years, companies never got tired of telling us how much of a benefit dedicated CPUs and OSes were. I'm still wondering why that would be. They're not cheaper, not more stable and not performing better.

 

[EOengineer]

I'm doing some proxy captures of pedals and I gotta say... hitting a preset limit with a single pedal capture and I cant use the EVH Panama Agoura model, not impressed. I took the Reverb out of there and I got it working but that's some pretty hefty limitations.

I know it'll get better but it made me double take while messing around tonight

View attachment 61415

Caps are beefy. I think DI said 4 per path max recently.

My brain insists that pedal caps shouldn’t be as beefy as amp caps, but in practice they seem to require roughly the same resources. I’ll have to dig to see if this is the case with Tonex and NAM. I suspect so.

 

[[Nathan]]

Caps are beefy. I think DI said 4 per path max recently.

My brain insists that pedal caps shouldn’t be as beefy as amp caps, but in practice they seem to require roughly the same resources. I’ll have to dig to see if this is the case with Tonex and NAM. I suspect so.

Yeah I think the goal is for them to get better and slimmer in usage. I was just like... this line has like 3 things on it and I can't add the Agoura EVH, wild.

 

[dean701]

Lots of refining to go. I would have a pedal cap and amp cap on each line then merge them with all effects after the merge.

I was surprised that they are still pruning fav count at this stage when the manual states thousands.

Lots of refining

 

[mbenigni]

That’s a serious concern. I get there’s more CPU on the other line but that pretty much rules out being able to run complex presets with Proxy, or being able run multiple chains for other instruments. For reference the QC doesn’t have as much of a limitation as the
Stadium, especially when it comes to multiple captures.

Yeah, this certainly slows my roll. 2nd CPU is for vocals, post FX for outboard synths, etc.

 

[dean701]

definitely some huge limitations.
I was trying to get dual amps running to the same effects line but I can't even add a second amp in this scenario.
(another restriction is that if I pipe 1B down to 2B, I can't split 2B to have it go to 2B as well.)
No problem with NDSP or FAS.

this also doesn't work with amps greyed out.

maybe if they introduced channels like FAS with no audio gap it would work, but some of the reverbs sound great pushed into one another so multiple reverbs are preferred (Thanks @brianwahl )

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

definitely some huge limitations.
I was trying to get dual amps running to the same effects line but I can't even add a second amp in this scenario.
(another restriction is that if I pipe 1B down to 2B, I can't split 2B to have it go to 2B as well.)
No problem with NDSP or FAS.

View attachment 61426

this also doesn't work with amps greyed out.

View attachment 61427

Do you really need dual compressors, dual drives, two cab blocks, that many delays and reverbs? Seems like you could trim a lot out and assign parameters to snapshot control where you need to change things. I run dual Agoura amp presets and have SO much more DSP available on the Stadium than I ever did on the Helix.

 

[fr8_trane]

I run dual Agoura amp presets and have SO much more DSP available on the Stadium than I ever did on the Helix.

Whats your dual amp setup? There is a stock preset with the AC30 and I think a twin that sounds amazing for clean tones. The AC30 just fills in that midrange canyon on the Twin perfectly.

 

[dean701]

Do you really need dual compressors, dual drives, two cab blocks, that many delays and reverbs? Seems like you could trim a lot out and assign parameters to snapshot control where you need to change things. I run dual Agoura amp presets and have SO much more DSP available on the Stadium than I ever did on the Helix.

my point is simply that I have no cpu restrictions to do that on other vendor platforms. I shouldn't have to compromise/trim anything.
The compressors and other (eq) blocks are simply to try things in different locations to see what sounds and works best.
The 4 tap delay and tape delay are very good together. The dynamic hall is a staple and for huge reverbs, pushing them into one another is a great effect for huge washy stuff.
I don't really need two simultaneous amps at all, as long as there is a way to switch amps without gaps then one amp block would do.

Even in this scenario, I can't add a second Agoura amp:

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Whats your dual amp setup? There is a stock preset with the AC30 and I think a twin that sounds amazing for clean tones. The AC30 just fills in that midrange canyon on the Twin perfectly.

Two Agoura AC30's with a dual IR cab. I run all of that on the second path with enough DSP left for a reverb, EQ, and one or two more effects. All other effects are run in front on the first path, stereo into the amps.

 

[HotRats]

I just had a thought about this so forgive me if I’m wrong…but…for those who aren’t running their actual set list on Showcase…

I think you could load, say 5 presets, each with a flag to call them up. Create a song with no music. Just have a 5 measure 4/4 length to it.

Spread the flags evenly on the downbeat of each measure. On beat 1 it calls the preset, it silently advances to beat 4 where the pause flag stops it from going to next measure.

Loop the 5 bar song.

Set it up so you have a toggle foot switch to start or reverse the play back

You end up with ‘Performance Mode à la Kemper!

As far as I know you don't need put showcase in playback, you can simply jump to the next/previous marker.

 

[Mongillo19]

Even in this scenario, I can't add a second Agoura amp

The biggest thing is that this is the newest gen and should have loads of power. It sucks seeing effects/amps grayed out after so little seems to be added.

I'd like to think it will become more efficient but obviously it isn't a guarantee.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

my point is simply that I have no cpu restrictions to do that on other vendor platforms.

You do, though. Some will limit counts of block types. Others just have a hard limit overall.

 

[Sascha Franck]

but in practice they seem to require roughly the same resources. I’ll have to dig to see if this is the case with Tonex and NAM. I suspect so.

With Tonex there's no difference. And well, it's pretty much like a digital picture. A digitized Monet doesn't use up more bits than a digitized kids painting.

 

[crispsandwich]

I'm surprised by how much DSP clones eat up, but then they sound better than anything else (aside from NAM, but it's about the same IMO). Been surprised at how good clones sound and feel. Incredible job by Line 6.

 

[OneEng]

I've had a few proxy captures on the EVH 5150iii 50w and 6505+ where the gain/eq sound right but its lost a bit of the body, like a 8MP photo vs a 20MP photo or something, hard to explain. I'd A/B the tone and going from the amp to proxy the amp just felt more detailed even though at a glance they sounded the same. For whatever reason that didnt happen here 3x so maybe the JVM is just a good amp for it, no idea.

Was it possible to "add a little body" back with a tweak?

This is 100% the case, and is true for other capture/cloning solutions as well. Where Proxy might shine, others might falter (for example, some fuzzes). And vice versa. The goal is to ensure it shines in as many cases as possible and if/when it doesn't, users will send us UUIDs so we can fully understand why. Another big advantage of Proxy being server-based.

Also, having a bunch of actual amp captures to work with should also provide Line 6 with ways to improve the modeling to more accurately simulate the amp behavior. Having the capture analyzed on the server also provides a butt ton more processing capabilities than could ever be achieved on a local piece of hardware; however, server resources are NOT free. It' really easy to build up an AWS/AZURE bill that completely eats up any profit you make on devices over time.

Then, as you point out, it provides a great ability to figure out why a clone didn't work great .... and fix it.

Gotta say that in general I'm pretty unimpressed by how little CPU juice there is to be had in most hardware modelers. I mean, I can run 3-4 maxed out instances of HX Native on a single thread of a Macbook Air M3. And over the years, companies never got tired of telling us how much of a benefit dedicated CPUs and OSes were. I'm still wondering why that would be. They're not cheaper, not more stable and not performing better.

I don't know. I think if I were coming out of the gate with Line 6, I would fail on the side of effectiveness and worry about efficiency once I got the effectiveness down cold. Seems normal to me.

I'm surprised by how much DSP clones eat up, but then they sound better than anything else (aside from NAM, but it's about the same IMO). Been surprised at how good clones sound and feel. Incredible job by Line 6.

I guess my question would be, if it gets the job done, who cares how much DSP it eats up?

Yes, I can see where those who want multiple amps, and multiple cloned pedals and multiple reverbs all in one, it would be frustrating ..... but I have to ask, are there other options to getting the same thing done without doing it all-in-one?

Kemper manages this by using "performance mode" and allows "spill over" between switches.... assuming that the reason one would put multiple amps and multiple verbs, etc into a single setup was to achieve an instant change between tones live. If it is to run 2 amps in parallel, that is something different.

 

[EOengineer]

I used Proxy to capture my dog and now Stadium won’t stop pooping all over my house.