Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[OneEng]

A big reason why HX Stomp still sells (and continues to sell) so well is that it's decidedly not just a cheaper Helix with a smaller LCD, fewer switches, and missing I/O. If we had designed it with traditional multieffects users' demands in mind, it would've flopped in comparison.

Basically, we ignored all y'all and it worked. Kinda like if you want to make a successful Star Wars movie, stay the hell away from Star Wars fan fiction.

Certainly true to an extent .

HX Stomp clearly re-uses most of the IP from Helix... but does so targeting a different user. No different than how Fractal re-imagined AM4. It's certainly NOT just a cut down Axe III Fx (like their FM models were).

It appears that there is lots of merit to this approach :).

 

[Sascha Franck]

HX Stomp is half the DSP of Helix, not a quarter. Or do you mean a it's a quarter of Stadium?

Well, it's only got 8 blocks, which make it a quarter Helix (sorry for mixing it with DSP juice). And it's defenitely the number of blocks (and partially switches) always getting in my way the most.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Basically, we ignored all y'all and it worked.

And you still don't know whether it would've worked better with one additional switch (and we don't need to discuss the max. number of blocks because pretty much all Stomp users wish there were more, especially as the DSP would allow for it).

 

[Digital Igloo]

And you still don't know whether it would've worked better with one additional switch...

We do.

 

[Sascha Franck]

We do.

Fine. So that's 4 switches confirmed then.

 

[DG80]

Not to sound like a broken record, but this talk of using a load box to make a proxy capture; is nobody else noticing the fizz happening 'behind' the notes when you roll the guitar volume down on the proxy capture itself?

It's driving me nuts, and nobody else seems to be saying about it.

@Digital Igloo - just checking if this is being looked at…? Raised a ticket that was closed, and had to recreate a new one a few days ago with no news or updates.

 

[Chocol8]

I always found that using a real cab, either for capture, OR for live use resulted in every capture having the "flavor" of that cab.

Are you talking about DI captures where the cab is just a load for the output stage, or full captures with the cab mic'ed?

Cabs are a HUGE tone shaper so of course one used on stage will have a big impact on a modeler or capture just like they do for a real amp. A cab baked into a capture is also going tk have the same significant impact.

A cab used as a load for the DI however doesn't impart any of its own sonic signature. It's impedance curve impacts the power tubes frequency response and breakup, but thats not really going to give it a flavor.

 

[dbfretz]

As much as they like you.

I think he meant size, not DSP.

Touchiness continues.

 

[OneEng]

Are you talking about DI captures where the cab is just a load for the output stage, or full captures with the cab mic'ed?

Cabs are a HUGE tone shaper so of course one used on stage will have a big impact on a modeler or capture just like they do for a real amp. A cab baked into a capture is also going tk have the same significant impact.

A cab used as a load for the DI however doesn't impart any of its own sonic signature. It's impedance curve impacts the power tubes frequency response and breakup, but thats not really going to give it a flavor.

Ahh. I get it now. Thanks.

Yea, I pretty quickly got rid of my guitar cabs and went with FRFR as this gave a much better live experience to my ears. I usually run DI into the mixer and use IEM's for monitoring, but for gigs where I sit in for another band that doesn't run IEM's, I bring a FRFR to play through and mic it.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I think he meant size, not DSP.

That’s what she said.


Sorry. I’ll see my way out.

 

[Lysander]

Jesus H Christ on a chicken basket, @2112 has the Stadium Mandarin sounding absolutely massive here.



I'm stealing those settings mate!

 

[CorrosiveMatter]

So what you're saying here is I can ask all I want but I'm not getting what I'm asking for?

Remember too, you will ask for 4 buttons and full capture support(or whatever), the next guy will want 3 buttons and capture playback support only. The next guy will want the StompXL with telekinesis edit support.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Remember too, you will ask for 4 buttons and full capture support(or whatever), the next guy will want 3 buttons and capture playback support only. The next guy will want the StompXL with telekinesis edit support.

All I’m asking for is the unit itself

 

[BenIfin]

Jesus H Christ on a chicken basket, @2112 has the Stadium Mandarin sounding absolutely massive here.



I'm stealing those settings mate!

Man ... its an often repeated comment .. and I'm no Heavy Orange Amp fan ... but Leo's DC30 and Orange demos really clearly show - to me at least - that the Agoura modeling is absolutely state of the art.

From this forum, generally it seems that most if not all the issues with Agoura are in the high to very high gain models.

And given D.I is here quite regularly, I have less than zero doubt these have been noted and will be addressed sooner rather than later.

Bring on Stadium Native I say :)

 

[brianwahl]

Re: Proxy Captures.

It seems to me (?) that most of the currently shown Proxy Capture Demonstrations on Y/T have been done using a Load Box (?)

From my limited understanding, a more "real" way is to have the real speaker connected and DI Tap off that, to do a Full or DI Capture (?)

In particular, Karlis from Amalgam has written in the past on his main thread at TOP that all his Captures for all devices, be they Cab and Speaker or just DI, are all DI Tapped off a connected Real Speaker - he has stated that in his tests as to whihc way to go, Captures done via a Load Box just weren't "as good"

He posted earlier on in his mega thread that this provided, to his ears, "better" and more "real sounding" copies in Tonex, QC, NAM etc...

Is there merit to this, or have the current gen Load Boxes negated this method (?)

I’ve done quite a bit of capturing on Stadium as well as Tonex, QC, Kemper, NAM, and Headrush. The majority of it has been amp+cab, mics, preamps, etc, but I’ve done a good bit of direct amp only capturing as well.

Personally, for all the above platforms, I far prefer amp and cab captures. They always sound better to me than a direct capture and an IR, even when the amp is set exactly the same and the IR is shot with the exact same cab/mics/preamps/EQ, etc. There just seems to be more magic in the full amp+cab version.

When it comes to direct captures, though, having a real cab connected makes a pretty big difference, IMO. I’ve done captures of amps connected to load boxes only with Ox, Captor X, and Reload II. To me they all perform similarly, but none of the captures I’ve made connected only to load boxes sound or react as good as when the amp is connected to a cab.

These days I make direct captures with the amp connected to a cab and a Neve RNDI between the amp/cab to get the direct signal. On Stadium when I’ve made clones like this, the direct clone + IR sounds really close to the amp+cab clones I’ve made at the same settings, but again, I prefer the amp+cab clones.

So long story short, yeah - I believe making amp only clones with the cab connected makes a pretty big difference. I understand it’s difficult to do a lot of capturing like this because of the volume. I’m lucky that I’ve got a separate cab room that I can pretty much blast 100w heads into 4x12 cabs at will

 

[brianwahl]

Jesus H Christ on a chicken basket, @2112 has the Stadium Mandarin sounding absolutely massive here.



I'm stealing those settings mate!

Leon is a beast!

 

[BenIfin]

I’ve done quite a bit of capturing on Stadium as well as Tonex, QC, Kemper, NAM, and Headrush. The majority of it has been amp+cab, mics, preamps, etc, but I’ve done a good bit of direct amp only capturing as well.

Personally, for all the above platforms, I far prefer amp and cab captures. They always sound better to me than a direct capture and an IR, even when the amp is set exactly the same and the IR is shot with the exact same cab/mics/preamps/EQ, etc. There just seems to be more magic in the full amp+cab version.

When it comes to direct captures, though, having a real cab connected makes a pretty big difference, IMO. I’ve done captures of amps connected to load boxes only with Ox, Captor X, and Reload II. To me they all perform similarly, but none of the captures I’ve made connected only to load boxes sound or react as good as when the amp is connected to a cab.

These days I make direct captures with the amp connected to a cab and a Neve RNDI between the amp/cab to get the direct signal. On Stadium when I’ve made clones like this, the direct clone + IR sounds really close to the amp+cab clones I’ve made at the same settings, but again, I prefer the amp+cab clones.

So long story short, yeah - I believe making amp only clones with the cab connected makes a pretty big difference. I understand it’s difficult to do a lot of capturing like this because of the volume. I’m lucky that I’ve got a separate cab room that I can pretty much blast 100w heads into 4x12 cabs at will

Thanks Brian.

Great to hear the hands-on real-world experiences from a part of a team that is consistently one of the major providers across all platforms.

Karlis from Amalgam expressed the exact same sentiments to me in a lengthy DM conversation we had at TOP 18 months ago - but I was/am curious if it was still relevant given how good Load Boxes have become.

As you say though, most people simply don't have the room space / audio room separation to run the Amp and Speaker at a sufficient level to get the Amp and Cab operating optimally - hence I suspect that's the reason for the abundance of Load Box-Only DI Captures.

Appreciated

 

[dean701]

well, that's it for me.

 

[molul]

Touchiness continues.

Your cheap trolling is still not liked in these forums, so you'll keep getting these responses.

 

[bucephalus]

So what you're saying here is I can ask all I want but I'm not getting what I'm asking for?

You need to ask for what you don't want