Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[MirrorProfiles]

I’m gonna go to my grave professing the 2203 as possibly the greatest rock and metal amp of all time. It covers SO MUCH ground.

I kind of agree and for a long time this was my stance. Now I kind of feel like this type of tone should be table stakes, I don’t think I want to play guitar with tone that isn’t at least as good as this.

 

[laxu]

I’m gonna go to my grave professing the 2203 as possibly the greatest rock and metal amp of all time. It covers SO MUCH ground.

While it's a quintessential and important amp in the history of amps, it's also a bit of a "transition phase" amp from an era when amps moved towards preamp gain based master volume amps.

The JCM800 is a bit undergained by modern standards unless cranked, and it's already ridiculously loud at low volume settings. It's no wonder why "your favorite drive pedal + JCM800" was the defacto setup for so many rock/metal bands.

Obviously digital models have less issues with practicalities of the amp. But I don't think I'd buy the real deal when it's been surpassed many times over by more modern designs. Especially when even in Europe JCM800s are not dirt cheap anymore.

 

[dean701]

I am not sure all the differences but this boosted JMP 2203 is one of the best rock tones I have heard in my life

I wish I knew or had his IR. I'd like to dial this in on the Stadium.

 

[GTR37]

I wish I knew or had his IR. I'd like to dial this in on the Stadium.

It’s an Ownhammer Bogner V 30
But you should be able to get close w a Marshall w V30 and
A Plumes in front
I don’t even know if OH has the Bogner pack on his site anymore
A York Audio Bogner 57or 57/121
Would likely get you there to

I am going to try it on the Fractal
As he always uses a Suhr reactive load and we have that curve as well as the Maxxon OD he has
Fractal users should be able to get pretty close especially with a Les Paul and lower output PAF

 

[JiveTurkey]

I would not import 100 IRs into anything, let alone 1000.

 

[EOengineer]

While it's a quintessential and important amp in the history of amps, it's also a bit of a "transition phase" amp from an era when amps moved towards preamp gain based master volume amps.

The JCM800 is a bit undergained by modern standards unless cranked, and it's already ridiculously loud at low volume settings. It's no wonder why "your favorite drive pedal + JCM800" was the defacto setup for so many rock/metal bands.

Obviously digital models have less issues with practicalities of the amp. But I don't think I'd buy the real deal when it's been surpassed many times over by more modern designs. Especially when even in Europe JCM800s are not dirt cheap anymore.

I love the bark and the cut, and I’ll happily trade some gain for that. A lot of the amps that are heavily modified versions of the 2203 end up trading out some of that bark and cut to control the gain they add from the mods. A lot of the Friedman stuff comes to mind - sounds cool but doesn’t sound like a 2203 anymore. I’m happy to keep the tone and add a boost. Most of the guys using the gainier amps are still using a boost anyway to tighten things up.

They are getting expensive though, but luckily there are companies like Ceriatone and others who faithfully reproduce killer clones of the circuit for far less than the originals cost.

 

[dean701]

I would not import 100 IRs into anything, let alone 1000.

lol. my Tonex app has 20000 I put into it. A couple thousand should not be an issue at all.
Textbook example. The packages that Mirror Profiles/Boutique Tones puts out are splendid with tons of spacing, mic, and angle options. Roughly 700 IRs per cab pack if I recall. They are awesome

 

[dean701]

It’s an Ownhammer Bogner V 30
But you should be able to get close w a Marshall w V30 and
A Plumes in front
I don’t even know if OH has the Bogner pack on his site anymore
A York Audio Bogner 57or 57/121
Would likely get you there to

I am going to try it on the Fractal
As he always uses a Suhr reactive load and we have that curve as well as the Maxxon OD he has
Fractal users should be able to get pretty close especially with a Les Paul and lower output PAF

the YT video details a Suhr reactive load with a Bogner v30 so I thought it might be one of actual Bogner IRs included with the Suhr unit. Not sure. I'm sure I can find something close.

 

[JiveTurkey]

lol. my Tonex app has 20000 I put into it. A couple thousand should not be an issue at all.
Textbook example. The packages that Mirror Profiles/Boutique Tones puts out are splendid with tons of spacing, mic, and angle options. Roughly 700 IRs per cab pack if I recall. They are awesome

Yeah the Stadium cab block broke me on the Boss IR to rule them all. I don't have option paralysis; I have option fatigue.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Simple question: Is it possible to connect an EXP pedal with a toe-switch to realize wah/vol toe-switching with the non-XL?
Thing is, on the GT-1000, I actually need 3 EXP inputs to realize this as the plain EXP functionality is already eating up an entire pair, so I have to utilize a 3rd one for the toe-switch - but the non-XL Stadium only has 2 EXP inputs.

 

[Orvillain]

Apologies in advance for a 'Bye Felicia' post. I'm thinking of selling my Stadium XL. I'm not getting the enjoyment from it that I was really hoping for. The workflow is great. I don't really have any complaints there, other than a few niggles.

There are a few reasons.

First, I’m a bit inconsistent with the amp models. Sometimes they sound and feel great, but other times they feel a bit congested or dark to my ears. I can usually dial something workable in, but I don’t always feel like I can just drop an amp in and immediately feel at home with it. That lack of trust in the core tone is probably the biggest issue for me. If I'm honest, I felt the same way about Helix back in the day too. It isn't bad... but there is something missing that I feel Fractal captures better.

Second, my playing is very effects-heavy, and at the moment I’m not really gaining anything on that front compared to what my old Helix Floor was doing years ago. The effects are still reasonable, but I’m not seeing anything new that really expands the palette for me. And when my most enjoyable experience boils down to chucking a £100 pedal in front of a valve amp .... and the Stadium can't deliver that same experience, I start to feel like I have a £2000 paperweight.

Third, my live rig has actually simplified a lot over the past few years. Back in my Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster days I needed a massive all-in-one board. Helix really fit the bill there, and I could do all of these crazy combinations of effects that really delivered great sounds. But these days my setup and my expectations are much more straightforward, and the all-in-one experience and capabilities isn’t really central to my rig in the same way. Put more simply; I don't really use snapshots anymore, I don't really need to change my parameters from snapshot to snapshot, I don't need a bunch of 1-song specific tones anymore, and I'm no longer trying to kill off tap dancing. Actually I've really embraced the tap dance over the last year. It is part of the enjoyment of playing for me.

The other thing is that I inevitably fall into the comparison game. When I go back to my Axe-FX III, even though it’s objectively more complicated to use, the amp modelling just tends to work for me straight away. It feels more plug-and-play in terms of tone and response. I also like the routing flexibility, even though I don’t go crazy with the grid like some users, it’s nice to be able to mirror a real pedalboard pretty closely when I want to.

None of this is meant as a knock on the Stadium. It’s clearly a powerful piece of gear and I know a lot of people are getting great results with it. It just might not be the right tool for my workflow right now.

 

[dean701]

Apologies in advance for a 'Bye Felicia' post. I'm thinking of selling my Stadium XL. I'm not getting the enjoyment from it that I was really hoping for. The workflow is great. I don't really have any complaints there, other than a few niggles.

There are a few reasons.

First, I’m a bit inconsistent with the amp models. Sometimes they sound and feel great, but other times they feel a bit congested or dark to my ears. I can usually dial something workable in, but I don’t always feel like I can just drop an amp in and immediately feel at home with it. That lack of trust in the core tone is probably the biggest issue for me. If I'm honest, I felt the same way about Helix back in the day too. It isn't bad... but there is something missing that I feel Fractal captures better.

Second, my playing is very effects-heavy, and at the moment I’m not really gaining anything on that front compared to what my old Helix Floor was doing years ago. The effects are still reasonable, but I’m not seeing anything new that really expands the palette for me. And when my most enjoyable experience boils down to chucking a £100 pedal in front of a valve amp .... and the Stadium can't deliver that same experience, I start to feel like I have a £2000 paperweight.

Third, my live rig has actually simplified a lot over the past few years. Back in my Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster days I needed a massive all-in-one board. Helix really fit the bill there, and I could do all of these crazy combinations of effects that really delivered great sounds. But these days my setup and my expectations are much more straightforward, and the all-in-one experience and capabilities isn’t really central to my rig in the same way. Put more simply; I don't really use snapshots anymore, I don't really need to change my parameters from snapshot to snapshot, I don't need a bunch of 1-song specific tones anymore, and I'm no longer trying to kill off tap dancing. Actually I've really embraced the tap dance over the last year. It is part of the enjoyment of playing for me.

The other thing is that I inevitably fall into the comparison game. When I go back to my Axe-FX III, even though it’s objectively more complicated to use, the amp modelling just tends to work for me straight away. It feels more plug-and-play in terms of tone and response. I also like the routing flexibility, even though I don’t go crazy with the grid like some users, it’s nice to be able to mirror a real pedalboard pretty closely when I want to.

None of this is meant as a knock on the Stadium. It’s clearly a powerful piece of gear and I know a lot of people are getting great results with it. It just might not be the right tool for my workflow right now.

just my 2 cent opinion. I think you should wait a few weeks for Proxy and then continue as needed. I think you will punch yourself for not waiting to try it if it turns out well.

 

[laxu]

I love the bark and the cut, and I’ll happily trade some gain for that. A lot of the amps that are heavily modified versions of the 2203 end up trading out some of that bark and cut to control the gain they add from the mods. A lot of the Friedman stuff comes to mind - sounds cool but doesn’t sound like a 2203 anymore. I’m happy to keep the tone and add a boost. Most of the guys using the gainier amps are still using a boost anyway to tighten things up.

I think that's more of a symptom of manufacturers trying to do their own signature thing with the sound.

 

[Melodioso]

Have any Agoura preamps models been confirmed for 1.3?

 

[EOengineer]

Have any Agoura preamps models been confirmed for 1.3?

No preamp models yet.

 

[Melodioso]

No preamp models yet.

Ok. Let's be patient then! It will come when it will come.

I do not really understand why the preamp-only models are taking this long to release though. I would have assumed that if the full amp has already been modeled at the component level, with both the preamp and power amp included, then the preamp section would already be done as well. Obviously there must be more to it than that.

 

[Digital Igloo]

FIrst major issue:
I loaded a few thousand IRs into the Stadium. The import went fine. Used the IRs with seemingly no issue. Next boot took about 10 minutes. Sat on the Helix Stadium banner screen seemingly forever. Then it came back. I performed a factory reset as I would assume this is unexpected behaviour. Restored. Re-added IRs. Same issue again. 10 minutes to start. Something terribly wrong here. Rebooted once more afterwards, timing seemed slightly better but this time was on the X banner screen.
Perhaps it validates all of the IRs recently added on its next boot but why so long. It doesn't explain why the future reboots kept taking so long.

Edit
Tried once more without folders, keeping everything in the main folder. Seems better. So far. Definitely a bug though. Tons of Google results for issues after IR imports (Helix Stadium stuck on banner screen)

Stadium builds its Cab IR database the first boot after loading new IRs. If you've added thousands, it'll take a while to build that database, but 10 minutes seems excessive.

Simple question: Is it possible to connect an EXP pedal with a toe-switch to realize wah/vol toe-switching with the non-XL?

Yes. Set Global Settings > Switches/Pedals > Control A (Tip) to "EXP In" and Control B (Ring) to "Footswitch In." With a Mission Line 6 pedal with toe switch you'll need a TRS > 2x TS cable, but with EX2, you just need a single TRS cable for both expression and toe.

 

[DG80]

Apologies in advance for a 'Bye Felicia' post. I'm thinking of selling my Stadium XL. I'm not getting the enjoyment from it that I was really hoping for. The workflow is great. I don't really have any complaints there, other than a few niggles.

There are a few reasons.

First, I’m a bit inconsistent with the amp models. Sometimes they sound and feel great, but other times they feel a bit congested or dark to my ears. I can usually dial something workable in, but I don’t always feel like I can just drop an amp in and immediately feel at home with it. That lack of trust in the core tone is probably the biggest issue for me. If I'm honest, I felt the same way about Helix back in the day too. It isn't bad... but there is something missing that I feel Fractal captures better.

Second, my playing is very effects-heavy, and at the moment I’m not really gaining anything on that front compared to what my old Helix Floor was doing years ago. The effects are still reasonable, but I’m not seeing anything new that really expands the palette for me. And when my most enjoyable experience boils down to chucking a £100 pedal in front of a valve amp .... and the Stadium can't deliver that same experience, I start to feel like I have a £2000 paperweight.

Third, my live rig has actually simplified a lot over the past few years. Back in my Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster days I needed a massive all-in-one board. Helix really fit the bill there, and I could do all of these crazy combinations of effects that really delivered great sounds. But these days my setup and my expectations are much more straightforward, and the all-in-one experience and capabilities isn’t really central to my rig in the same way. Put more simply; I don't really use snapshots anymore, I don't really need to change my parameters from snapshot to snapshot, I don't need a bunch of 1-song specific tones anymore, and I'm no longer trying to kill off tap dancing. Actually I've really embraced the tap dance over the last year. It is part of the enjoyment of playing for me.

The other thing is that I inevitably fall into the comparison game. When I go back to my Axe-FX III, even though it’s objectively more complicated to use, the amp modelling just tends to work for me straight away. It feels more plug-and-play in terms of tone and response. I also like the routing flexibility, even though I don’t go crazy with the grid like some users, it’s nice to be able to mirror a real pedalboard pretty closely when I want to.

None of this is meant as a knock on the Stadium. It’s clearly a powerful piece of gear and I know a lot of people are getting great results with it. It just might not be the right tool for my workflow right now.

I know what you mean - I'm kind of in the same boat.

Lots of niggles with usability and the effects are quite a bit more limited compared to the AFX3 (and the routing is nowhere near as advanced, as you say). I would say that the 'feel' of the amps on the whole is better for me in Agoura vs. Fractal, but there's definitely something missing in the top end as I know you've mentioned before.

I really want to love it, as it would make gigs a lot easier to setup and pack down - will be interesting to see if Line 6 can fix the issues with darkness etc.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yes. Set Global Settings > Switches/Pedals > Control A (Tip) to "EXP In" and Control B (Ring) to "Footswitch In." With a Mission Line 6 pedal with toe switch you'll need a TRS > 2x TS cable, but with EX2, you just need a single TRS cable for both expression and toe.

Ok, that's cool with me either way! Wah/Vol has become a pretty essential part of my setups for a long time already - and unlike with analog pedals, MFX/modling units finally allowed me to place both in the proper position, which I find just awsome (quite some pedalboard real estate savings).

Btw, from what you're saying, the second EXP input will still be completely free - that's great.

 

[EOengineer]

I thought there was acknowledgment here from DI that some tweaks were coming where they did find a very slight (1-2 db) attenuation in the top end that was being worked on, but honestly I forget if it was limited to the 5153 or more broad.

Given how much roadmap there is in front of this product I couldn’t imagine bailing on it this early, but I understand everyone’s risk tolerance varies.