Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Sascha Franck]

In the end the units have to sound good as a prerequisite but then it's all about workflow.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of users don't think that way. They will keep analyzing the last minutiae of sound authenticity ad nauseum and will ask for yet some more as authentic new amp models instead of raising their voices regarding anything related to usability aspects.
That's why we get brand new amp modeling but the same old sub par LED rings in the HX series. And it's also why we don't get much innovative stuff, if anything at all.

 

[MIJLOVER]

I'm expecting my AM4 this week. I didn't order it because I dislike the Stadium or am unsatisfied with it. I'm just curious if the channels thing might work better for my live workflow and resurrect my old plans around a hybrid pedalboard. I buy that stuff to make music and to achieve some goal.

In the end the units have to sound good as a prerequisite but then it's all about workflow. (It's the workflow, stupid!)

Interestingly the lack of Stadium Native makes the Stadium less appealing (to me!) because that was my main selling point for OG Helix. And the channels concept in Helix would make kitchen sink presets so much easier (and probably let us forget about the DSP and block count barriers). But I have the feeling, L6 is afraid to overwhelm their target audience with more complex concepts like global blocks. And I understand them. A friend of mine, great guitar player, knows a lot about tone but he wouldn't get along with the complexity of most modelers. It took me hours to explain to him how to add a ToneX One to his pedalboard for IEM.

The hybrid pedalboard thing sounds fun until I remember that the sum always turns out to be less than it’s parts. I know it would lead me down a dark path of always tinkering with adjacent pedal

I’m with you that Stadium Native would be awesome, and I guess it’s coming at some point, but I don’t see how that would make Stadium less appealing than say the AM4 that also doesn’t have a native version?

On the contrary, I’m finding it liberating to use Stadium as a standalone, especially as I’m loading in more tracks.

As for channels and DSP concerns, I’m sure the team are looking at ways to optimize and maybe they’ll implement a whole different way of achieving the same thing.

I don’t think it’s accurate to say they won’t add advanced features. The whole Showcase feature with flags and midi commands can be considered quite advanced for someone who’s only ever used a few pedals through an amp. I do agree that they will try to make every feature as intuitive to use as possible, but that’s a good thing, imo.


There seem to be a lot of folks who want a AX3 in a floor board with Stadium UX/UI. It ain’t happening any time soon, fellas, likely never. Both companies will continue to improve their offerings, though, and we’ve come a long way since tje Fender G-deck and Vox Tonelab I started out on

 

[EOengineer]

Unfortunately, the vast majority of users don't think that way. They will keep analyzing the last minutiae of sound authenticity ad nauseum

Accuracy is table stakes in a flagship device on a next gen modeling platform. If this is puzzling you it might be time to reconsider how you are consuming or processing information.

That's why we get brand new amp modeling but the same old sub par LED rings in the HX series. And it's also why we don't get much innovative stuff, if anything at all.

LMAO. Yeah I see a total fuck ton of people like “THIS SOUNDS KILLER BUT EWW THOSE LED RINGS!!!”

Spoiler

JK…it’s still just you.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Accuracy is table stakes in a flagship device on a next gen modeling platform. If this is puzzling you it might be time to reconsider how you are consuming or processing information.

I've got no problems with devices being accurate. And I've got no problems with people asking for accuracy.

LMAO. Yeah I see a total fuck ton of people like “THIS SOUNDS KILLER BUT EWW THOSE LED RINGS!!!”

Obviously your bedroom warrior mates don't worry much about live usability.

 

[Lysander]

What you shouldn't do is present your personal preferences as if they were universally valid and relevant considerations.

I'm sorry sir, that's entirely too sane of a take for this place. Please check your badge on the way out.

 

[StarF666]

The hybrid pedalboard thing sounds fun until I remember that the sum always turns out to be less than it’s parts. I know it would lead me down a dark path of always tinkering with adjacent pedal

Yeah, I know. But I like to have direct access to my drive pedals for gain staging and on-the-fly adjustments during a gig. And I haven't found a digital fuzz I really like.

I’m with you that Stadium Native would be awesome, and I guess it’s coming at some point, but I don’t see how that would make Stadium less appealing than say the AM4 that also doesn’t have a native version?

Oh, that was not Stadium against AM4. I see both products as quite diffrent and for diffrent use cases. But the thing I loved most (yes, MOST) about my OG Helix was, that I always had the hardware de facto at hand, home, studio, road. It was always available. It just feels strange to not have access to Agoura in Native, YET (and to have the actual unit next to me).

As for channels and DSP concerns, I’m sure the team are looking at ways to optimize and maybe they’ll implement a whole different way of achieving the same thing.

I hope so. It's not bad in any way but I somehow hoped, I would not run into DSP limitations as fast as on the old hardware. And we have just the amp models "agourafied". But that is mostly due to my kitchen sink aproach.

I don’t think it’s accurate to say they won’t add advanced features. The whole Showcase feature with flags and midi commands can be considered quite advanced for someone who’s only ever used a few pedals through an amp. I do agree that they will try to make every feature as intuitive to use as possible, but that’s a good thing, imo.

No opposition. I really love how L6 is pushing the whole thing forward. That is something we would have dreamt of 20 years ago when we were running backing tracks off a MD player (in mono because other side had click track).

All in all I just wanted to say, they are quite diffrent products beside they both do modeling and it's just apples to oranges. I'll keep the stadium but I'm happy I can also try the AM4 (and keep it if it fills a spot). If I just had to keep one, it would be the Stadium though.

 

[Richard_G]

The hybrid pedalboard thing sounds fun until I remember that the sum always turns out to be less than it’s parts.

I’m in the opposite camp; with my boards, I think the sum turns out to be greater than its parts.

 

[MIJLOVER]

I hope so. It's not bad in any way but I somehow hoped, I would not run into DSP limitations as fast as on the old hardware. And we have just the amp models "agourafied". But that is mostly due to my kitchen sink aproach.

Some very valid pints. I haven’t had issues with the DSP so far, I can tell it’s easier to fit in effects, even if the amps take up the same DSP percentages that the old amps did on OG Helix. I’ve managed to cram in a few effects on a path for the singer in my band too, which is quite cool.

I think I’ll need to experiment more with the channel switching amps. If I can find the Stones I need in the SLO, Silver Jubilee or 2C+ amps, it’s kinda like having “channels” in there anyway.

If they get the Marchless ported, I could probably get all my tones from that one amp.

Do you envision using the Proxy feature when that drops? Or are you solely on modeling?

 

[paisleywookiee]

Well you don't need to make a 1:1 comparison between two products that fall under the same category.

Right, otherwise the FM9 could be perceived as superior, just for having channels.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Obviously your bedroom warrior mates don't worry much about live usability.

We have buildings to play in here.

 

[JiveTurkey]

If anything; the Stadium is a QUANTUM leap in usability. LED quality be damned.

Spoiler

Most of my time with it was spent going "WEEEEEEEEEEE!" and playing around on the touchscreen

 

[Gary_W]

I’ve been enjoying using Showcase for practice backing tracks and have been playing around with flags to change between snapshots. Very intuitive and works well.

I decided to have a go at using the looper flag and did a Moises stem extraction of ‘Where is my mind’ by Pixies. Idea was to play the intro (with a click) for one bar. Then get it to play that back whilst my fingers get ready to do the riff. I thought it’d be a fun one to do with Showcase and a good learning experience for setting the looper within a song but I’ve hit a couple of issues. One is a ‘me’ issue that one of you lovely folks might be able to help with and the other is either a Line 6 issue or it’s a ‘me not knowing how to use the thing properly’ issue. Probably (b) but we’ll see!

My first issue is that Moises claims it’s 82bpm, ‘the internet’ claims its 81bpm. I think the truth is somewhere in between so……. Any tips for getting this song lined up with the grid 100% so the looper has a fighting chance of working for me in automatic mode?

Next issue…. I put on a ‘record’ looper flag. I then put on a ‘playback’ looper flag. This works perfectly (albeit not lined up as mentioned above) but….. when I stop the transport within Showcase, the loop just keeps playing back. I can’t think of a reason why, if you’re using the looper within Showcase and otherwise playing to a backing track, why you’d want the loop to carry on playing when the Showcase transport is stopped. Is there a way I can alter this behaviour? Or can one of you educate me as to why this is actually a good idea because my brain isn’t seeing it that way right now but, given evidence, I’ll always reconsider :)

 

[Gary_W]

That's why we get brand new amp modeling but the same old sub par LED rings in the HX series. And it's also why we don't get much innovative stuff, if anything at all.

As mentioned in my post above, I’m really enjoying Showcase. The idea of changing snapshots / doing looper stuff sync’d up to a song within the unit itself is pretty innovative IMO. I think they’ve done a great job of making sounds that will keep the vast majority of users very happy whilst throwing in a bunch of things that other companies haven’t even thought of, let alone implemented.

 

[Orvillain]

My first issue is that Moises claims it’s 82bpm, ‘the internet’ claims its 81bpm. I think the truth is somewhere in between so……. Any tips for getting this song lined up with the grid 100% so the looper has a fighting chance of working for me in automatic mode?

I would imagine the BPM changes throughout the song, in slight increments. Unless they edited it to fuck to appeal to the trap beats on a bus kids, which I seriously doubt, considering society hadn't descended to the fresh hells of SHIT FUCKING MUSIC BEING BLARED OUT AT THE BACK OF THE BUS THAT WILL GET YOU STABBED IF YOU TELL THEM TO TURN IT DOWN, when that song was released.

 

[EOengineer]

I would imagine the BPM changes throughout the song, in slight increments. Unless they edited it to fuck to appeal to the trap beats on a bus kids, which I seriously doubt, considering society hadn't descended to the fresh hells of SHIT FUCKING MUSIC BEING BLARED OUT AT THE BACK OF THE BUS THAT WILL GET YOU STABBED IF YOU TELL THEM TO TURN IT DOWN, when that song was released.

Yup. It’s super common with clicked music to automate small 1-3bpm tempo changes in choruses or bridges to help accentuate feel changes. I’d imagine there will be a significant quantity of commercially recorded music that will exhibit this behavior. I’ve definitely done it, I bet you have as well.

I haven’t bothered with showcase but I’d assume tempo changes are in the backlog somewhere if not already on the device. Showcase would be pretty limited in its applicable use cases if it can’t accommodate that.

 

[Orvillain]

Yup. It’s super common with clicked music to automate small 1-3bpm tempo changes in choruses or bridges to help accentuate feel changes. I’d imagine there will be a significant quantity of commercially recorded music that will exhibit this behavior.

I haven’t bothered with showcase but I’d assume tempo changes are in the backlog somewhere if not already on the device. Showcase would be pretty limited in its applicable use cases if it can’t accommodate that.

I have code I can sell them. BUY MY CODE LINE 6 I AM POOOORRRRRR

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I would imagine the BPM changes throughout the song, in slight increments. Unless they edited it to fuck to appeal to the trap beats on a bus kids, which I seriously doubt, considering society hadn't descended to the fresh hells of SHIT FUCKING MUSIC BEING BLARED OUT AT THE BACK OF THE BUS THAT WILL GET YOU STABBED IF YOU TELL THEM TO TURN IT DOWN, when that song was released.

TBF some of the nonsense coming out of Albini’s mouth in that decade might have got him carved up in any decade.

To answer the question…. is the song even cut to a click? I could imagine that it probably isn’t, in which case, so long as the count in lines up you’re probably good.

 

[Orvillain]

TBF some of the nonsense coming out of Albini’s mouth in that decade might have got him carved up in any decade.

Yeah but, did he do it at the back of a bus? Coz that's what counts!

 

[dean701]

Subjectively you can compare anything you want and rank your preferences according to your needs, and that's ok.

You can prefer a mini katana to an axe FX 3, because the smaller, the better, fine.

What you shouldn't do is present your personal preferences as if they were universally valid and relevant considerations.

And that's what you can easily read on certain platforms.

Comments like "I keep my tonex one because sounds better and costs 1/10" placed under a YT video or FB post about another product, are flat out stupid and probably just a way to shit over other people choices.

That kind of comment makes sense only if one is trying to replace an whole pedalboard with a product like a QC, tone master pro, etc. But if that's the case the comment/comparison should be much more articulated.




Well you don't need to make a 1:1 comparison between two products that fall under the same category.

Fm9 and helix are the "same" product, they serve the "same" function with the "same" wide array of features: lots of DSP, I/o, flexible routing, lots of foot switches with flexible switching options and they both have modelling for both amps and fx.
They have the same purpose: being a comprehensive all in one modelling/multi FX product that can cover almost any musical and practical need.
They have differences and those differences will be reasons for decisions.

UA amp pedals and fm9, while they both do modeling are not the "same" product because other than being modelling devices they don't share the same idea, the same purpose.

My point was only that you can compare any devices that have like functionalities despite their pricing.
I agree with many things you said but I don't believe I am trying to pass off my opinion as gospel.
Due to manufacturing costs, sometimes vendors are limited on how low they can go so. Sometimes similar functionality is available at different price points.
In the comparison between the FM9 and Helix, you could potentially throw the FM3 in there as well. Add a $200 MC6 and you have your button count. I have owned all 3 (FM9, FM3, Helix), and if memory serves I was able to put more blocks on my FM3 than the Helix, plus with channels I had more readily available options per preset and the Fractal routing between blocks is more flexible.
If Behringturd did one of their questionable moves and released a duplicate version of some modeler at 1/2 cost, unfortunately it would be comparable to the original.
I don't expect you to agree with me and that's fine.

Speaking of UA, I wonder with the design of Paradise Studio if they have intentions of entering the all in one modeler market.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

same old sub par LED rings in the HX series

Maybe I just don’t know, but what is sub par about them?