Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Mooselake]

I'm sure there are things I'm forgetting at the moment, but I think this is a pretty complete list. So what have other Stadium users decided?

Keeping mine. None of the things that bug other people about Stadium bother me enough to want to go back to the OG LT, and nothing I've found with the AM4 is enough to get me to fork over a similar sum to make the wholesale changeover to a Fractal flagship level product.

Maybe I'm just a Line 6 fan boy

There's an assumption in the above that Line 6 smooths the warts and maintains a decent pace rolling out new Agoura models and effects that leverage some of the increased horsepower.

Caveat is the first platform to produce a high quality Marshall 4140 model might be the one I ultimately settle on.

 

[Mongillo19]

increased horsepower

Obviously the Stadium has more power but tbh I was disappointed at the moment you could fit in a row (assuming you used a new model). Hopefully they can optimize the new models as they move forward

 

[Sascha Franck]

LFOs for this, please.

And envelopes and input level modifiers.

 

[MIJLOVER]

Keeping mine. None of the things that bug other people about Stadium bother me enough to want to go back to the OG LT, and nothing I've found with the AM4 is enough to get me to fork over a similar sum to make the wholesale changeover to a Fractal flagship level product.

Maybe I'm just a Line 6 fan boy

There's an assumption in the above that Line 6 smooths the warts and maintains a decent pace rolling out new Agoura models and effects that leverage some of the increased horsepower.

Caveat is the first platform to produce a high quality Marshall 4140 model might be the one I ultimately settle on.

Yeah, totally with you. I was considering the AM4 for a weak moment but then started thinking about all the compromises I would have to make. And to be fair, it’s around 40% of the price of the Stadium here in EU, and I do believe that’s good value. But I’m loving my time with the Stadium already.

I keep thinking about the things DI said was coming but he couldn’t talk about yet. I think we’re in awesome ride

 

[OG-T]

I'm surprised people are deciding whether or not to keep something that's so new. Seems to be a bit messy for gigging right now. I gave OG Helix 2 years to develop before even buying. After seeing L6's support for that unit I don't think I need to wait so long this time. Honestly I'm good with what I have, Tonex & HX Stomp, and I don't expect a massive difference. Proxy will probably be the deciding factor.

My main concern is actually that the switches are closer together than OG Helix. I have wide stubby feet that like to hit multiple buttons. I think they make these things for folks that only play at home or at a church where you never have to worry about moving. My ideal would be switches like the old Voodoo Lab GCP.

 

[ejecta]

I'm surprised people are deciding whether or not to keep something that's so new.

People have different needs and different lengths of patience with new products. I almost gave up on it when I thought I couldn’t update due to WiFi weirdness and somewhat of user error on my end but I’m not sending mine back or selling anytime soon, let alone for an AM4 since that has been brought up in this thread. Hard pass on that but not because it’s a bad unit… for me with my wants and needs that wouldn’t work. Not sure why these two are even being compared since the Stadium and the AM4 are pretty different in functionality and use case… let alone price point

 

[HotRats]

Not sure why these two are even being compared since the Stadium and the AM4 are pretty different in functionality and use case… let alone price point

In the Facebook group you can find people comparing Stadium with tonex one

 

[Mooselake]

People have different needs and different lengths of patience with new products. I almost gave up on it when I thought I couldn’t update due to WiFi weirdness and somewhat of user error on my end but I’m not sending mine back or selling anytime soon, let alone for an AM4 since that has been brought up in this thread. Hard pass on that but not because it’s a bad unit… for me with my wants and needs that wouldn’t work. Not sure why these two are even being compared since the Stadium and the AM4 are pretty different in functionality and use case… let alone price point

I only mentioned the AM4 because it's the only example of Fractal amp modeling I've tried out yet, and supposedly it essentially uses the latest full up AXE III modeling, with the exception of them having combined multiple channels of the same amp into a single model in some instances(if I understand that correctly).

I have two distinct use cases. One is my normal at-home for 8 months of the year rig. The other is my over-the-summer tiny-cabin-in-the-woods rig. The former is basically unconstrained, the latter requires a very small footprint. Going forward the Stadium will be my at-home rig, and next summer I'll take the AM4 up to the woods. It should be a pretty big upgrade over the POD Express I've been using, with only a relatively minor increase in footprint.

I only rarely come up with involved presets, but it happens often enough that the AM4 wouldn't be a good choice for me for a year round rig in both locations. But the amp modeling is very good and it's a high bang-for-the-buck device IMO.

 

[Mooselake]

Yeah, totally with you. I was considering the AM4 for a weak moment but then started thinking about all the compromises I would have to make. And to be fair, it’s around 40% of the price of the Stadium here in EU, and I do believe that’s good value. But I’m loving my time with the Stadium already.

I keep thinking about the things DI said was coming but he couldn’t talk about yet. I think we’re in awesome ride

I am with you on the last sentence. I also think we're in for a heckuva journey. But I can wait for the dust and bugs to settle, and the incremental functional improvements to come in due time. I get it that a lot of users need something they can go out and perform with right away, and I can see why they'd be hesitant with a buggy device despite others already have had success doing that with the Stadium in its current stage of development. I did get an AM4 but I never thought of it as a potential replacement for my "main" rig, just as something to take with me for use in tight quarters.

 

[dean701]

In the Facebook group you can find people comparing Stadium with toner one

Price does come into play if you can find a unit that sounds better and offers what you need for a fraction of the cost. The Am4 is amazing. If it suits the purpose, there's no need to spend 3K on a device.

 

[Mooselake]

Obviously the Stadium has more power but tbh I was disappointed at the moment you could fit in a row (assuming you used a new model). Hopefully they can optimize the new models as they move forward

Yeah, they've said there's still a lot of active optimization work going on, though I'm not sure just how much throughput they'll be able to claw back. Sounds like they've more-or-less doubled the horsepower of the unit versus OG and nearly doubled the amp model requirements with the Agoura tech. I was in a similar enough business to know it's a tough sell to add a lot of extra capacity in a device that won't be using it until maybe sometime down the road. It is what it is. But I suspect they could sharpen their pencils in the effects realm without them being as processor hungry as the Agoura amps or poly pitch stuff.

 

[HotRats]

Price does come into play if you can find a unit that sounds better and offers what you need for a fraction of the cost. The Am4 is amazing. If it suits the purpose, there's no need to spend 3K on a device.

You can't compare a single pedal (tonex one) that only plays captures with one that does everything you can imagine and some more.

That's stupid.

The AM4 at least has effects and has 4 switches, some I/o and routing options. It's a product that can be a stadium or an fm9 competitor for some users with simpler needs.

But a comparison between AM4 and helix studium or fm9 is not apple to apple.

 

[dean701]

You can't compare a single pedal (tonex one) that only plays captures with one that does everything you can imagine and some more.

That's stupid.

The AM4 at least has effects and has 4 switches, some I/o and routing options. It's a product that can be a stadium or an fm9 competitor for some users with simpler needs.

But a comparison between AM4 and helix studium or fm9 is not apple to apple.

I can see your point to a degree but in the end they are just digital solutions. If it sounds great then cost is a factor. Tonex offers unlimited amp and cab sounds with very limited mod, delay, reverb, comp functions. If you need more buttons then the midi is there. (Not tonex 1 but Tonex.) If the limited effects work then its a great solution. Need more effects add a stomp an AM4 or a VP4. Am4 needs a pitch block but it would serve many well.

In its current form Stadium has showcase but Proxy is not there yet. I'm not against Line 6 at all. They have also historically saturated the market with different flavors themselves. Stomp, stomp xl, the POD series, pedals... if Proxy succeeds, they will set themselves up to do very well.

There is no reason to use price band as a principle means for comparison. That should be purely sound and function. If someone buys a Stadium but all they use are 2203 and Princeton emulations and added effects then they have many products to choose from in all price bands.

 

[GTR37]

I would never say never. But it would be dependent on features improved and added and of course what the competition does. A next generation Fractal device would definitely be hard to resist.

I am in the same boat , I have one on order but based on my experience w just the AM4 and the new editor and the way things are going knowing
Fas Next Gen
Will be Touchscreen
Capture player
New cab block with 10 or 12 mic’s a cab
Onboard store able blocks library
Likely blue tooth and IOS app
I see it highly unlikely that I would choose a Stadium
So for now I am going timbuck and enjoy the AM4 while I wait

 

[EOengineer]

Not sure why these two are even being compared since the Stadium and the AM4 are pretty different in functionality and use case… let alone price point

I think the conversation is about comparing the perceived accuracy of the two PLATFORMS moreso than the devices specifically but we’re seeing that manifest oddly because the AM4 is a bunch of folks first Fractal experience, and the Stadium XL is currently the only way to experience Agoura.

I’ve had a lengthy deliberation over keeping Stadium. It has not been the slam dunk I was expecting, and the AM4 simultaneously overshot my expectations by a wide margin. I’m keeping Stadium to see where things go but the AM4 is getting 90% of my playtime.

I think there is a good size subset of folks that mostly just want cutting edge amps and fx with a reasonable editor. Get those right and I’m good. Fractal is doing a better job convincing me they got those things right. That’s the cold truth of it. I’m still bullish on L6 though, and that’s why the Stadium XL didn’t go back.

 

[Mongillo19]

perceived accuracy

I do wish DI would have chimed in a little more. Probably a lose lose for him though. It would just be nice to know if it is a bug, something they didn't account for in the modeling, is it being worked on, etc.

I know DI has also stated that in a good amount of the internal A/B tests, participants preferred the Stadium over various other modelers.. I imagine they also had the amp part of the A/B/Y?

Anyway, the stadium doesn't sound bad but:

It has not been the slam dunk I was expecting, and the AM4 simultaneously overshot my expectations by a wide margin.

Exactly this. Maybe I was unrealistic with my expectations for the Stadium. Very well could be a me issue lol

 

[dean701]

My point is simply that you can compare any modelers in any price category. It all depends on the feature set you are looking for. Comparing any 2 brands is always apples and oranges. Neural has both captures and models. Tonex has captures. Kemper has profiles. Fractal has models. Then you have all of the different functions and routing differences between them. Then the I/O. It's a fucking fruit basket. Comparing an Fm9 to a Stadium is impossible..how would you compare things like stem separation? unless like @EOengineer said, you bare it down to quality amps, effects and usability. Then everything can be compared. Once you start introducing things likes routing or specialty features like Showcase now you are pinning it down to the vendor's architecture. Need SPIDF I/O, bye QC. Need to profile your current amp?.....need 3 effects loops?

we had this same discussion with a user that posted about the Stadium and the AXE3 now being more closely price aligned. He proceeded to post on 15 different forum sites looking for friends, and went away kicking and screaming after being torn to pieces. You can't compare the devices based on pricing. You need to base comparisons on the feature sets that are important to you.

 

[GLiDE-BPM]

I'll keep Stadium, QC, Axe III, and FM9 until next Gen fractal drops. If they make next Gen floor version as powerful, I'll sell the FM9 and Axe III to help finance that. Otherwise, I'll get the next gen Fractal rack model.

Then I'll still have at least 2 good floor units, and one gen 4 fractal box!

 

[HotRats]

My point is simply that you can compare any modelers in any price category. It all depends on the feature set you are looking for. Comparing any 2 brands is always apples and oranges. Neural has both captures and models. Tonex has captures. Kemper has profiles. Fractal has models. Then you have all of the different functions and routing differences between them. Then the I/O. It's a fucking fruit basket. Comparing an Fm9 to a Stadium is impossible..how would you compare things like stem separation? unless like @EOengineer said, you bare it down to quality amps, effects and usability. Then everything can be compared. Once you start introducing things likes routing or specialty features like Showcase now you are pinning it down to the vendor's architecture. Need SPIDF I/O, bye QC. Need to profile your current amp?.....need 3 effects loops?

we had this same discussion with a user that posted about the Stadium and the AXE3 now being more closely price aligned. He proceeded to post on 15 different forum sites looking for friends, and went away kicking and screaming after being torn to pieces. You can't compare the devices based on pricing. You need to base comparisons on the feature sets that are important to you.

Subjectively you can compare anything you want and rank your preferences according to your needs, and that's ok.

You can prefer a mini katana to an axe FX 3, because the smaller, the better, fine.

What you shouldn't do is present your personal preferences as if they were universally valid and relevant considerations.

And that's what you can easily read on certain platforms.

Comments like "I keep my tonex one because sounds better and costs 1/10" placed under a YT video or FB post about another product, are flat out stupid and probably just a way to shit over other people choices.

That kind of comment makes sense only if one is trying to replace an whole pedalboard with a product like a QC, tone master pro, etc. But if that's the case the comment/comparison should be much more articulated.

Comparing an Fm9 to a Stadium is impossible..how would you compare things like stem separation?

Well you don't need to make a 1:1 comparison between two products that fall under the same category.

Fm9 and helix are the "same" product, they serve the "same" function with the "same" wide array of features: lots of DSP, I/o, flexible routing, lots of foot switches with flexible switching options and they both have modelling for both amps and fx.
They have the same purpose: being a comprehensive all in one modelling/multi FX product that can cover almost any musical and practical need.
They have differences and those differences will be reasons for decisions.

UA amp pedals and fm9, while they both do modeling are not the "same" product because other than being modelling devices they don't share the same idea, the same purpose.

 

[StarF666]

I'm expecting my AM4 this week. I didn't order it because I dislike the Stadium or am unsatisfied with it. I'm just curious if the channels thing might work better for my live workflow and resurrect my old plans around a hybrid pedalboard. I buy that stuff to make music and to achieve some goal.

In the end the units have to sound good as a prerequisite but then it's all about workflow. (It's the workflow, stupid!)

Interestingly the lack of Stadium Native makes the Stadium less appealing (to me!) because that was my main selling point for OG Helix. And the channels concept in Helix would make kitchen sink presets so much easier (and probably let us forget about the DSP and block count barriers). But I have the feeling, L6 is afraid to overwhelm their target audience with more complex concepts like global blocks. And I understand them. A friend of mine, great guitar player, knows a lot about tone but he wouldn't get along with the complexity of most modelers. It took me hours to explain to him how to add a ToneX One to his pedalboard for IEM.