Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

I like both honestly , the cool thing about captures is that you can have a lot more variety your not waiting on a specific model
The other obvious thing is some one who has a favourite amp and sound and settings , it’s an easy way to get that and have access to it
Same. I find that if the capture device's tech is good, you will find something that appeals to you. Tonex, qc, kemper. Conversely sometimes modelers miss the mark on certain amps. If the device has both caps and models, it should be a lock that somewhere there's a winner.
 
Do you guys think you’d enjoy trying captures of amps, or would you prefer Line 6 Agoura models? I suppose time will tell, but I know players can be kinda split on that topic. I love captures, but I pretty much just play the captures I make of my own amps, ha.

After months of playing with Tonex and NAM, as well as buying every official IK Tonex pack, I’m thoroughly tired of captures. Models, please.
 
Do you guys think you’d enjoy trying captures of amps, or would you prefer Line 6 Agoura models? I suppose time will tell, but I know players can be kinda split on that topic. I love captures, but I pretty much just play the captures I make of my own amps, ha.
Models. Unless, like you, it's a capture of my own amp with my own settings. And since I no longer have any amps...
 
Do you guys think you’d enjoy trying captures of amps, or would you prefer Line 6 Agoura models? I suppose time will tell, but I know players can be kinda split on that topic. I love captures, but I pretty much just play the captures I make of my own amps, ha.
Once Proxy lands, I've got:

Diezel VH4 - 4 channel 100watt beast.
Diezel Hagen - 4 channel 100watt beast.
Diezel D-Moll - 2.5 channel 100watt beast.
Laney VH100R - 2 channel (but pseudo 4 channel because of built in boosts) 100watt beast.

(okay I'm going to stop typing that now)

Peavey 6505+
Orange Rockerverb MKIII
Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier - 2018 multi-watt version.
Mesa Boogie Mark V.
Marshall JVM410HJS - the Satriani one.
Fryette Sig:X


I've also got this small 30watt combo by Dutton Thermionic; it's a right little beast!!! (damnit ... said it again)
 
... Do you guys think you’d enjoy trying captures of amps, or would you prefer Line 6 Agoura models? I suppose time will tell, but I know players can be kinda split on that topic. I love captures, but I pretty much just play the captures I make of my own amps, ha.
To date, I've never tried a capture of an amp. Once Stadium has proxy up and running I have no qualms about trying some out. I don't have the wherewithal to make my own captures, and the two amps I have arguably aren't worth capturing. The one I like most is a Suhr PT-15 IR which is sort of self-capturing anyway. I would probably only pay for some very select captures (like a Marshall 4140 Club and Country which I don't think anyone has modeled). But if Line 6 throws a few into Stadium or some kind souls out there share a few I'd love to try them out. No reason to go either/or with Stadium. Both/and is the better approach for a simpleminded guy like me who basically goes by: if it sounds good (to me), it is good.
 
Do you guys think you’d enjoy trying captures of amps, or would you prefer Line 6 Agoura models?
I'll take proper amp models any day.

I recently shot 20 captures of my Mesa Mark V 90. It took a helluva lot of time, and even though the results are pretty good...if I want authentic something else, I need to do more captures.

By comparison with a Mark IV model (even the legacy one while we wait for Agoura) on the HX Stadium I'd have pretty much all the tones that amp is capable of at my disposal, in an intuitive manner rather than hemming and hawing over specific captures like Goldilocks evaluating a porridge.

I think captures have their place - a box as tiny as a Tonex One is really useful. I just don't see myself picking captures on a modeler as competent at amp modeling as a HX Stadium.
 
Once Proxy lands, I've got:

Diezel VH4 - 4 channel 100watt beast.
Diezel Hagen - 4 channel 100watt beast.
Diezel D-Moll - 2.5 channel 100watt beast.
Laney VH100R - 2 channel (but pseudo 4 channel because of built in boosts) 100watt beast.

(okay I'm going to stop typing that now)

Peavey 6505+
Orange Rockerverb MKIII
Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier - 2018 multi-watt version.
Mesa Boogie Mark V.
Marshall JVM410HJS - the Satriani one.
Fryette Sig:X


I've also got this small 30watt combo by Dutton Thermionic; it's a right little beast!!! (damnit ... said it again)
Off topic, but can I get a rundown of the different Diezel models? I feel like they have a ton of overlap so does each excel at a different thing? I've only played a VH4 and owned an Einstein in real life.
 
I'll take proper amp models any day.

I recently shot 20 captures of my Mesa Mark V 90. It took a helluva lot of time, and even though the results are pretty good...if I want authentic something else, I need to do more captures.

By comparison with a Mark IV model (even the legacy one while we wait for Agoura) on the HX Stadium I'd have pretty much all the tones that amp is capable of at my disposal, in an intuitive manner rather than hemming and hawing over specific captures like Goldilocks evaluating a porridge.

I think captures have their place - a box as tiny as a Tonex One is really useful. I just don't see myself picking captures on a modeler as competent at amp modeling as a HX Stadium.
I think the best use of captures is when they’re made with intent, rather than to just “cover the bases”. If you’re recording your amp and you have it set up just like you want it, AND you don’t want to lose that particular sound then it’s ideal. Trying to use captures in the same fashion you’d use models is always going to fall short.

I also think doing amp+cab+mic captures really just makes the whole crapshoot much worse. It’s convenient having everything in one but unless the tone is PERFECT, you’ll probably want to adjust something. And even for the same artist, song to song you’ll probably want to tweak little things here and there.

I think direct models and some kind of cab sim is the best compromise if you want some room to manoeuvre changing the tone slightly. Going through a stack of captures for slight tonal adjustments can be brutal.
 
Off topic, but can I get a rundown of the different Diezel models? I feel like they have a ton of overlap so does each excel at a different thing? I've only played a VH4 and owned an Einstein in real life.
They all sound quite different to be honest.



I don't really know how to describe it. But they all have quite a different gain texture, different mid emphasis, different respond in the chugs, different presence amounts.
 
Spent more time with the Agoura Plexi. I think the vintage and classic rock guys (Hendrix, Page, EJ) will love this model. I’m able to stiffen the amp up a bit by turning the bass and sag all the way down, z pre/post all the way up, and running the bright channel with mids maxed, treble and presence at noon. It’s still too squishy and too spitty for what I’m looking for and if you push the treble and presence both those issues get worse. The amp basically totally falls apart, especially with humbuckers.

It’s amazing how many variants are available and how all our tastes differ. For my preferences, I love how this one sounds and reacts. But then I do seem to gravitate towards amps that fart wildly from the belly when you hit them more than modern voiced things. Don’t get me wrong, I like those too (I can find a use for anything really and if it’s not useful it’s often fun). For me, with these initial amps, there’s quite a few of (what I think) are modern voiced amps anyway so I’m glad they went more in a vintage voicing with this one.

But I gravitate more toward the late 60’s thing that they modeled in the Brit Plexi.

Do you guys think you’d enjoy trying captures of amps, or would you prefer Line 6 Agoura models? I suppose time will tell, but I know players can be kinda split on that topic. I love captures, but I pretty much just play the captures I make of my own amps, ha.
Me too on the vintage thing (see above).

I’m looking forward to captures but not longing for it anywhere near as much as if you’d asked me the same question a few months ago.

I’ve come from a Kemper and, although I was very happy with it, I’m preferring the sounds I’m getting here. I’m also really enjoying the engagement I’m feeling with dialing in the Stadium. Scrolling through captures that someone else has done is a very different mindset and I frankly hadn’t realised that I’d prefer doing it this way - you probably wouldn’t have convinced me of this mindset shift until I’d tried doing it this way….. I know it’s still not a real amp but my brain is fooled into feeling more connected with the device - I guess because of how I’m working with it compared with just loading a profile and tweaking maybe one parameter….. normally, I’d just go to another profile if it didn’t do what I wanted. Lazy maybe but I doubt I’m alone.

I think my perception of profiles being the way to go came from a vague concept of Fractal feedback where you can tweak everything down to the minutest detail. That polarises people IMO - you get folks who say ‘I can control everything and it’s awesome’. You get others that might argue that you’ll spend more time tweaking than you will playing. This perception comes up on forums aimed at people whose devices rely on capture; this mindset makes dialing in presets sound quite intimidating compared to having someone else’s golden ears do it for you (which is what a Kemper profile is and, although you can tweak a little (and go beyond the original amp) you’re still better off selecting another profile if the gain is significantly different from where you’re wanting it to be).

So for ‘the new me’ I’m keen to stay with modelling now I’ve lost the fear of it! I am still interested in captures but, for me now, I think it’s more about being able to experience weird and wonderful amps that haven’t had the modelling treatment. There’s also the question of ‘Will a captured stomp box take less DSP than a modelled one’. Same question for an amp and, right now, we don’t know. For anyone that makes massive presets, this might also be something that is attractive (or otherwise!) about Proxy.
 
I think the best use of captures is when they’re made with intent, rather than to just “cover the bases”. If you’re recording your amp and you have it set up just like you want it, AND you don’t want to lose that particular sound then it’s ideal. Trying to use captures in the same fashion you’d use models is always going to fall short.
I’m all in on captures as safety nets when tracking bass and guitar. For the last 6 months or so I’ve just been quickly shooting the caps and storing them with the sessions. This has already paid off in spades and prevented some re-tracking.

Beyond that I have like 3 Superlead caps I use for 95% of my own music/playing, and a small handful of Recto caps I’ve created for my brutalz kicks.

I also think doing amp+cab+mic captures really just makes the whole crapshoot much worse. It’s convenient having everything in one but unless the tone is PERFECT, you’ll probably want to adjust something. And even for the same artist, song to song you’ll probably want to tweak little things here and there.

I think direct models and some kind of cab sim is the best compromise if you want some room to manoeuvre changing the tone slightly. Going through a stack of captures for slight tonal adjustments can be brutal.
This is where I’m at as well. It’s a shame because I do think there’s some valuable extra realism in Tonex’s reproduction of the amp with a cab and mic, but trying to fit statically mic’d guitars into an infinitely different pool of recordings is really just pissing in the wind. You need to be able to place that mic where you need it. DI caps really are the only way.
 
I think the best use of captures is when they’re made with intent, rather than to just “cover the bases”. If you’re recording your amp and you have it set up just like you want it, AND you don’t want to lose that particular sound then it’s ideal. Trying to use captures in the same fashion you’d use models is always going to fall short.

I also think doing amp+cab+mic captures really just makes the whole crapshoot much worse. It’s convenient having everything in one but unless the tone is PERFECT, you’ll probably want to adjust something. And even for the same artist, song to song you’ll probably want to tweak little things here and there.

I think direct models and some kind of cab sim is the best compromise if you want some room to manoeuvre changing the tone slightly. Going through a stack of captures for slight tonal adjustments can be brutal.
The thing I like the least with captures is the workflow. It's like the old "pick IRs from a huge list" for cab sims, only even worse. Once I find a capture I like it's fine, even if you tweak it a bit.

I mainly made a pile of captures so I can take them home and play a facsimile of my big ass Mesa rig through studio monitors, so for that thing capturing the cabs is kinda alright too. I did make direct captures from the speaker out tapped slave out as well, I just wish the system allowed making both at once because that would save so much time.

But if given the option for both...I'll just work with amp models. When I had the QC, the captures were fun to try out for a bit but I never ended up using them over the amp models.

At the same time, I find that I have a pretty narrow tonal sweetspot that I keep dialing out of literally any amp. Like I may pick out a bunch of captures for Tonex out of what is available, then go through them and find out the ones I like sound near identical. It has made me really question how much I care about amp modeling in the first place when my real amps can all do those few specific things I like.
 
Pitch shifting sounds like shit, no matter what company you’re talking about. The only thing I’ve ever found remotely acceptable is Roland/BOSS VG stuff.
I’d like to try the Boss XS100 but have tempered expectations. People who have played that I’d trust say it least at lower tunings it doesn’t artifact or have the latency of other units.

But you’re right…. IME Fractal, Digitech, QC, and Line 6 (it’s the most acceptable to me but not great)…. they all suck.
 
I experienced a couple of glitches last night where I'd load a preset and it was like the IR/cab wasn't processing. Reloading the preset cured it.

However, I'm happy to report that the issue where my one patch suddenly was gained out and clipping was 100% my fault. When I fixed my initial issue by re-adding the AC30s to my patch, I lowered the drive on the wrong channel so the Top Boost channel was at a level where it was breaking up. Dialing it in correctly fixed that. DOH!
 
Seems about average for this type of product , the loops definitely increase dramatically .

Yeah similar to what I measured
https://thegearforum.com/threads/line-6-helix-stadium-talk.10275/page-23#post-432398

Yeah the loops are going to add an additional DAC+A/D conversion which is 2.25ms together, if you put them all of them in series like he did yeah of course it’s going to add up.

And this is just with a loopback lead - if you put a Digital Device in each Loop and run all 4 Loops with Digital Devices then your Latency is going to hit crazy high levels.

Bit this is the same for every device with Digital Loops.
 
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