Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[brianwahl]

I actually TOTALLY get it. I'm an all-effects up front kinda guy. I play post-metal and post-rock stuff. Pretty typical to hit the front of a crunchy amp with delay and reverb in those genres.

I can't say I've noticed any "problems" with the Fractal amps. But Agoura does seem to be a bit more saggy, a bit more bouncy, a bit more reactive and creative like. I'm not even talking about the built in reverbs, I'm using external reverbs. But the Fractal amps seem to get more compressed faster than I'd like.

I sometimes feel like Fractal amps get gainer faster than I'd like, on the whole.

Also I compared the Agoura Bogner XTC amps to the Fractal ones. And I massively prefer the Agoura models. I don't know which is more realistic, but the Agoura ones are tight and punchy, like a loud Marshall. I went and listened to some clips on Youtube today, and my gut feel is the Agoura ones are more accurate to the amp.

I know that Fractal uses the 20th anniversary edition of the amp. But listening to YT clips again, there isn't a world of difference between the older model and the 20th anniversary one. So I don't really know what is occurring.

Yeah - I agree on the compression thing on the Fractal models when you push them with wet FX. I've tried running external effects (my board) into Axe-FX III, and I didn't get along with it at all. To the point where I wondered if some kind of setting in my I/O was off - very well could have been.

I bought an Ecstasy recently. I got a 101b EL34 (same as the Agoura model, actually). I haven't spent a ton of time with it yet, but I've really wanted to dive into both that amp and then the digital models. It's got to be one of the best sounding amps ever made.

I got a Bogner 412ST cab with Vintage 30's as well. I don't think that cab is in Stadium (it's the Uber cab, right?). I made a few IR's of the 412ST and tried them with the Plexi and the Ecstasy models and they sound great.

Matchless is my favorite amp company, but I think Bogner might be #2.

 

[banned]

Got to use Stadium live this weekend for the first time. My buddy Bradford and I did a video over on our Worship Tutorials channel about our experience playing it. Here's the video:



The video ends with us having a some-what lengthy discussion (most of which I actually edited out), but here are some cliff notes about my personal experience (and some thoughts about Stadium compared to Fractal)

As a disclaimer, though: I'm a huge Line 6 fan, and a huge Fractal fan. When Helix launched, I adopted it immediately. When Axe-FX III released, I bought it, because I had always been curious about Fractal. Over the past 10 years, I've used Helix and Axe-FX III almost 50/50. I also capture amps for a living, so literally every day I'm playing real amps, capturing them, comparing them to the digital versions, etc. Anyway - back to Stadium...

We did a handful of the factory presets for Stadium, so I've had the chance to explore it for a while now. I've done a TON of A/B'ing it against all kinds of stuff - Axe-FX III, Tonex, QC, OG Helix, etc. Using it live was sort of the final litmus test for us...

1. I think the Agoura amps are at least as good as Fractal's models - better in some respects. Fractal has always been the pinnacle for me modeling-wise. The Agoura models are on the same level (IMO), but they exceed Fractal in one respect for me - and it's a big one for us church players. The Agoura models handle effects - particularly big reverbs and delays with overdrive into the front of the amps - better than Fractal. I tried to articulate this in the video, but when you start pushing the Fractal models with all that stuff, they seem to be pushed back further in the stereo field, It's like they're further away from you. And if you think, "well that's what reverb does", I would say, yeah kinda. In real amps, you get all the wet stuff slamming into the amp and creating a big beautiful sounding mess, but the amp is still more present in the mix (not present in an EQ way - present in a 'it's right in front of my face' way). Fractal doesn't quite replicate this as well as the Agoura models do. I haven't compared every model, but for the ones I've tried, this seems to be pretty consistent across the board. We understand a lot (most?) players don't set up their signal chain like this or go for these super ambient and driven tones, so this could be a moot point for many, but to me it speaks to the authenticity of the models compared to real amps.

I LOVE the Tweed Bassman model in Stadium, and I prefer it to the Fractal model by quite a lot. Makes me really want to play the reference amps that both Line 6 and Fractal have. I suspect their models sound exactly like the amps, which is just another point to think of when comparing amp models from company to company. They're modeled after real amps, and especially with vintage - they all sound kind of different.

One more point re: Fractal and Agoura models - I really like the tweak-ability of the fractal stuff. Being able to dive into all those submenus and essentially mod the amp block into oblivion is awesome. I know some people say it's a drawback for fractal, but I dig it a lot. The Hype parameter kind of does all that in a single slider, which is also very cool. And for the most part, I really like what Hype does to each individual amp model.

2. Stadium felt and and sounded just as good as a pedalboard into Tonex v2 captures to me. My board + Tonex setup has sort of been my gold standard over the past year+ or so. Stadium doesn't sound the same - it doesn't have the same drive models, reverb, delays, or amp models that I use with the board/tonex setup, but it sounds/feels just as good. No other all in one modeler has done this for me.

3. We experienced some bugs. Bradford had a tap tempo bug/issue going on, and my presets somehow set the 'level' parameter in the volume block to snapshot control. Just that parameter, tho, and I never set it up that way (that I'm aware of). It meant that if I pulled my volume back in a snapshot, and then came back to it in the middle of the song, the volume was off. I had my expression pedal settings to global. Once I turned off snapshot control on that parameter, all was fixed. Otherwise we had no bug issues.

4. I agree with other comments about reverbs. Fractal's reverbs are the best of any modeling unit, IMO. I do really love Dynamic Hall, Glitz, and Dynamic Plate. When I use Helix/Stadium, I'm perfectly happy with those sounds, but I have a feeling Line 6 will be giving us new reverbs down the line.

5. I cannot wait for Proxy.

There was a time when music at church was great. Now, it's the same sounding stuff over and over - I can't tell where song ends and the other starts. Also, somewhere along the way, people started equating reverb and these big ambient sounds with worship. That and huge stage production values. Everyone has the best gear...the PA is fantastic....the video systems etc...but it all feels very dead.

Not a dig on you personally...but I hope that this 'sound' and the people behind this just go away forever (Hillsong, Maverick, Elevation etc.). Earlier, we had music in all genres. Now, only Brooklyn Tabernacle still does something worthwhile.

Anyhoo...back to the gear - I agree with you - the Tweed Bassman is something else when pushed. So is that Marshall Superbass.

 

[AlbertA]

Ok, here we go - I'm loving the Twin reverb right now

This is a first pass at emulating a Keeley Halo - Using a Fender Twin Reverb and using the stock cabs with two mics:

 

[dbagchee]

I'm curious for those that have been playing TONEX v2 captures recently - how does the Agoura "feel" compare?

 

[Orvillain]

Anyone got any opinions on whether this kind of board would be nicer to have the stadium and few additional pedals on?

I do like my Rockboards for single stompos. But putting the Stadium on it raises the thing too high.

I guess I'm looking for a goldilocks board:
- Big enough to fit stadium on, with a wah and optionally volume pedal next to it
- Space behind to put my Fractal VP4, Source Audio Ventris, and Meris MercuryX
- Not too heavy
- Room for power stuffs as well.... which is the main thing that the above design is a bit crap at.

 

[Chocol8]

View attachment 55576

Anyone got any opinions on whether this kind of board would be nicer to have the stadium and few additional pedals on?

I do like my Rockboards for single stompos. But putting the Stadium on it raises the thing too high.

I guess I'm looking for a goldilocks board:
- Big enough to fit stadium on, with a wah and optionally volume pedal next to it
- Space behind to put my Fractal VP4, Source Audio Ventris, and Meris MercuryX
- Not too heavy
- Room for power stuffs as well.... which is the main thing that the above design is a bit crap at.

Look at the Creation Music Aero series. They are flat, low and light weight. If you are using Cooks or another low profile power supply, it will fit underneath, and they have various extension feet if you want a little more room.

 

[Mongillo19]

I'm curious for those that have been playing TONEX v2 captures recently - how does the Agoura "feel" compare?

Imo comparable. I'm not missing anything

 

[dk_ace]

View attachment 55576

Anyone got any opinions on whether this kind of board would be nicer to have the stadium and few additional pedals on?

I do like my Rockboards for single stompos. But putting the Stadium on it raises the thing too high.

I guess I'm looking for a goldilocks board:
- Big enough to fit stadium on, with a wah and optionally volume pedal next to it
- Space behind to put my Fractal VP4, Source Audio Ventris, and Meris MercuryX
- Not too heavy
- Room for power stuffs as well.... which is the main thing that the above design is a bit crap at.

If the primary thing I’m building around is elevated and sloped, I generally want a flat board. Hybrid stuff, it depends on what I think I’ll be stomping on the most.

Flat stuff can be lighter weight if it’s built right. If they used mdf, it’s gonna mdf’ing heavy despite being simple and flat…. I usually just make my own if I’m doing flat and can find a case or bag I like to fit it to so that I’m in control of weight, rigidity, etc.

Power is slightly wonky here, my plan for my next board build which will be flat is to use a PS that I can set other pedals on top of (assuming I can do so without noise) or put a small riser on that a ps will go under. I may need the riser for other purposes otherwise I’d just plan to put a pedal or two on the ps.

The last time I built one it was as low as possible but elevated and sloped just enough to fit power underneath. It was clean looking, but I’m not sure it was worth the weight and trouble.

My next one is gonna be something along the lines of what you’ve got a pic of there. No one makes one (that I can find) of the size I want, so I may have to do a simple one myself.

D

 

[AlbertA]

Oh yeah - that Heliosphere delay is good stuff

 

[dk_ace]

Got to use Stadium live this weekend for the first time. My buddy Bradford and I did a video over on our Worship Tutorials channel about our experience playing it. Here's the video:



The video ends with us having a some-what lengthy discussion (most of which I actually edited out), but here are some cliff notes about my personal experience (and some thoughts about Stadium compared to Fractal)

As a disclaimer, though: I'm a huge Line 6 fan, and a huge Fractal fan. When Helix launched, I adopted it immediately. When Axe-FX III released, I bought it, because I had always been curious about Fractal. Over the past 10 years, I've used Helix and Axe-FX III almost 50/50. I also capture amps for a living, so literally every day I'm playing real amps, capturing them, comparing them to the digital versions, etc. Anyway - back to Stadium...

We did a handful of the factory presets for Stadium, so I've had the chance to explore it for a while now. I've done a TON of A/B'ing it against all kinds of stuff - Axe-FX III, Tonex, QC, OG Helix, etc. Using it live was sort of the final litmus test for us...

1. I think the Agoura amps are at least as good as Fractal's models - better in some respects. Fractal has always been the pinnacle for me modeling-wise. The Agoura models are on the same level (IMO), but they exceed Fractal in one respect for me - and it's a big one for us church players. The Agoura models handle effects - particularly big reverbs and delays with overdrive into the front of the amps - better than Fractal. I tried to articulate this in the video, but when you start pushing the Fractal models with all that stuff, they seem to be pushed back further in the stereo field, It's like they're further away from you. And if you think, "well that's what reverb does", I would say, yeah kinda. In real amps, you get all the wet stuff slamming into the amp and creating a big beautiful sounding mess, but the amp is still more present in the mix (not present in an EQ way - present in a 'it's right in front of my face' way). Fractal doesn't quite replicate this as well as the Agoura models do. I haven't compared every model, but for the ones I've tried, this seems to be pretty consistent across the board. We understand a lot (most?) players don't set up their signal chain like this or go for these super ambient and driven tones, so this could be a moot point for many, but to me it speaks to the authenticity of the models compared to real amps.

I LOVE the Tweed Bassman model in Stadium, and I prefer it to the Fractal model by quite a lot. Makes me really want to play the reference amps that both Line 6 and Fractal have. I suspect their models sound exactly like the amps, which is just another point to think of when comparing amp models from company to company. They're modeled after real amps, and especially with vintage - they all sound kind of different.

One more point re: Fractal and Agoura models - I really like the tweak-ability of the fractal stuff. Being able to dive into all those submenus and essentially mod the amp block into oblivion is awesome. I know some people say it's a drawback for fractal, but I dig it a lot. The Hype parameter kind of does all that in a single slider, which is also very cool. And for the most part, I really like what Hype does to each individual amp model.

2. Stadium felt and and sounded just as good as a pedalboard into Tonex v2 captures to me. My board + Tonex setup has sort of been my gold standard over the past year+ or so. Stadium doesn't sound the same - it doesn't have the same drive models, reverb, delays, or amp models that I use with the board/tonex setup, but it sounds/feels just as good. No other all in one modeler has done this for me.

3. We experienced some bugs. Bradford had a tap tempo bug/issue going on, and my presets somehow set the 'level' parameter in the volume block to snapshot control. Just that parameter, tho, and I never set it up that way (that I'm aware of). It meant that if I pulled my volume back in a snapshot, and then came back to it in the middle of the song, the volume was off. I had my expression pedal settings to global. Once I turned off snapshot control on that parameter, all was fixed. Otherwise we had no bug issues.

4. I agree with other comments about reverbs. Fractal's reverbs are the best of any modeling unit, IMO. I do really love Dynamic Hall, Glitz, and Dynamic Plate. When I use Helix/Stadium, I'm perfectly happy with those sounds, but I have a feeling Line 6 will be giving us new reverbs down the line.

5. I cannot wait for Proxy.

Interesting take on running wet effects before the amp models in stadium vs fractal. How do you think the Helix compared in that regard to stadium and fractal?

D

 

[EOengineer]

Got to use Stadium live this weekend for the first time. My buddy Bradford and I did a video over on our Worship Tutorials channel about our experience playing it. Here's the video:



The video ends with us having a some-what lengthy discussion (most of which I actually edited out), but here are some cliff notes about my personal experience (and some thoughts about Stadium compared to Fractal)

As a disclaimer, though: I'm a huge Line 6 fan, and a huge Fractal fan. When Helix launched, I adopted it immediately. When Axe-FX III released, I bought it, because I had always been curious about Fractal. Over the past 10 years, I've used Helix and Axe-FX III almost 50/50. I also capture amps for a living, so literally every day I'm playing real amps, capturing them, comparing them to the digital versions, etc. Anyway - back to Stadium...

We did a handful of the factory presets for Stadium, so I've had the chance to explore it for a while now. I've done a TON of A/B'ing it against all kinds of stuff - Axe-FX III, Tonex, QC, OG Helix, etc. Using it live was sort of the final litmus test for us...

1. I think the Agoura amps are at least as good as Fractal's models - better in some respects. Fractal has always been the pinnacle for me modeling-wise. The Agoura models are on the same level (IMO), but they exceed Fractal in one respect for me - and it's a big one for us church players. The Agoura models handle effects - particularly big reverbs and delays with overdrive into the front of the amps - better than Fractal. I tried to articulate this in the video, but when you start pushing the Fractal models with all that stuff, they seem to be pushed back further in the stereo field, It's like they're further away from you. And if you think, "well that's what reverb does", I would say, yeah kinda. In real amps, you get all the wet stuff slamming into the amp and creating a big beautiful sounding mess, but the amp is still more present in the mix (not present in an EQ way - present in a 'it's right in front of my face' way). Fractal doesn't quite replicate this as well as the Agoura models do. I haven't compared every model, but for the ones I've tried, this seems to be pretty consistent across the board. We understand a lot (most?) players don't set up their signal chain like this or go for these super ambient and driven tones, so this could be a moot point for many, but to me it speaks to the authenticity of the models compared to real amps.

I LOVE the Tweed Bassman model in Stadium, and I prefer it to the Fractal model by quite a lot. Makes me really want to play the reference amps that both Line 6 and Fractal have. I suspect their models sound exactly like the amps, which is just another point to think of when comparing amp models from company to company. They're modeled after real amps, and especially with vintage - they all sound kind of different.

One more point re: Fractal and Agoura models - I really like the tweak-ability of the fractal stuff. Being able to dive into all those submenus and essentially mod the amp block into oblivion is awesome. I know some people say it's a drawback for fractal, but I dig it a lot. The Hype parameter kind of does all that in a single slider, which is also very cool. And for the most part, I really like what Hype does to each individual amp model.

2. Stadium felt and and sounded just as good as a pedalboard into Tonex v2 captures to me. My board + Tonex setup has sort of been my gold standard over the past year+ or so. Stadium doesn't sound the same - it doesn't have the same drive models, reverb, delays, or amp models that I use with the board/tonex setup, but it sounds/feels just as good. No other all in one modeler has done this for me.

3. We experienced some bugs. Bradford had a tap tempo bug/issue going on, and my presets somehow set the 'level' parameter in the volume block to snapshot control. Just that parameter, tho, and I never set it up that way (that I'm aware of). It meant that if I pulled my volume back in a snapshot, and then came back to it in the middle of the song, the volume was off. I had my expression pedal settings to global. Once I turned off snapshot control on that parameter, all was fixed. Otherwise we had no bug issues.

4. I agree with other comments about reverbs. Fractal's reverbs are the best of any modeling unit, IMO. I do really love Dynamic Hall, Glitz, and Dynamic Plate. When I use Helix/Stadium, I'm perfectly happy with those sounds, but I have a feeling Line 6 will be giving us new reverbs down the line.

5. I cannot wait for Proxy.

This was a fun read, thanks for contributing here.

I actually TOTALLY get it. I'm an all-effects up front kinda guy. I play post-metal and post-rock stuff. Pretty typical to hit the front of a crunchy amp with delay and reverb in those genres.

I can't say I've noticed any "problems" with the Fractal amps. But Agoura does seem to be a bit more saggy, a bit more bouncy, a bit more reactive and creative like. I'm not even talking about the built in reverbs, I'm using external reverbs. But the Fractal amps seem to get more compressed faster than I'd like.

I sometimes feel like Fractal amps get gainer faster than I'd like, on the whole.

Also I compared the Agoura Bogner XTC amps to the Fractal ones. And I massively prefer the Agoura models. I don't know which is more realistic, but the Agoura ones are tight and punchy, like a loud Marshall. I went and listened to some clips on Youtube today, and my gut feel is the Agoura ones are more accurate to the amp.

I know that Fractal uses the 20th anniversary edition of the amp. But listening to YT clips again, there isn't a world of difference between the older model and the 20th anniversary one. So I don't really know what is occurring.

I think to some extent we’re both brushing up against some post rock tendencies. I usually use a combination of particle verb, space echo, and harmonic Trem locked to various tempo subdivisions to create my beautiful messes, and Agoura def handles this differently than Hx and more like my amps. It feels like there’s more headroom and a finer dynamic gradient to work with. Overall it’s way less compressed, more open.

I'm curious for those that have been playing TONEX v2 captures recently - how does the Agoura "feel" compare?

I’ve been using Tonex with stomboxes for the last year or so and I’d put Agoura at least on par with it. Agoura has the liveliness and the dynamics, but I think Agoura feels a bit more amplike in its attack. Both are outstanding assuming you have a solid V2 capture to start.

 

[HotRats]

Jonathan (HW/Tone Junkie guy) and I are pretty good friends in real life. We often text back and forth and laugh together about how much hate he gets on forums. He's a good dude. The 'HW' personality in videos is sort of a caricature of his real-life self.

And to be fair to him, the preset he's using in his video is available for free.

In all the years I've known him, he's been a die-hard Kemper guy, and I've been a die hard Line 6 (and Fractal) guy. I was really interested in his take on Stadium, and he is genuinely impressed with it.

Just to be clear I don't hate him or have anything against him or his business, which is 100% legit.

He talks too much, that's the only complain I have.

I really like his tones most of the times, I think he's really good at that.

 

[GLiDE-BPM]

Tried booting up my Stadium this morning. After several minutes, I was greeted by a message that said "You have been logged out of your account". I had the option to OK or cancel. I hit OK. It sat at the X logo and never continued past that point. Restarting cured it.

I hit the home key and it fixed it. Then I manually went to the login page in Preferencces.

 

[fiftyshadesofslay]

As if there wasn’t enough bloody toys in the house already!

 

[GTR37]

From the clips I have heard it almost sounds like instead of sounding like a recording of the amp , more like the amp is in the room , there is just a lot of weight behind the notes and bloom not sure how they accomplished this , but that my take in some of the clips it’s sound way less processed smooth or compressed

 

[AlbertA]

2203 with the same York IRs as I use in the FM3/9 - Every bit as good as the Fractal model. No qualms about using this.

Which York IRs are those?

AC30 - Holy mother of God is this amazing! I loaded up the AC30 with default cab/mic and dropped the top boost drive to 3.5. I instantly got the base AC30 tone I was looking for. Was fully prepared to spend time on this because I tweaked for over an hour on the FM9 and didn't get anywhere near this good of a tone, and I tweaked the original HX model for hours and never got here. I didn't even load the IRs I used in the FM9 yet, and I might not. It's that good right out of the gate.

Which one is the top boost drive? The bright drive control? Or do you mean a drive in front of the amp? if so, which one?
Any other settings? It sounds super clean here at the defaults here.

 

[molul]

Helix Fuzzes are great.

I dunno... I haven't been able to dial a Helix fuzz that sounds close to the Big Muff Pi or the Big Muff Op-amp pedals I had, and there's no velcro fuzz like Shin-ei Companion. Industrial fuzz does remind me of the fuzz factory, but other than that, I just find them "good enough".

 

[EOengineer]

I dunno... I haven't been able to dial a Helix fuzz that sounds close to the Big Muff Pi or the Big Muff Op-amp pedals I had, and there's no velcro fuzz like Shin-ei Companion. Industrial fuzz does remind me of the fuzz factory, but other than that, I just find them "good enough".

I’d love to see L6 add a Carcosa. That thing always sounds awesome and doesn’t require archaic impedances to work correctly.

 

[AlbertA]

Gosh how great is this editing feature? Love it.

 

[Mooselake]

Oh yeah - that Heliosphere delay is good stuff

That gives a nice vibe that's almost Andy Timmon-like. I'll have to try that one out sometime over the weekend. Thanks.