Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

dean701 said:
He's wrong. The playing was exceptional and the tone depends on the context. In a busy mix the reverb would put it behind everything but that may be intentional. As a solo instrument, with no accompaniment, it sounded very good.
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How can I be wrong when I was asked for my opinion?

See me? Right now? This is me, not telling you you're wrong. Because I accept it is your opinion.
 
Oh, and FWIW, I'm not saying Stadium sounds bad. Never said that. My position is multivariant.

- Proxy is promising
- Proxy is still pretty inaccurate right now
- The Agoura amps are leaving a fair amount to be desired to me, and I'm still pretty convinced there is a bug somewhere
- I can get "good" sounds out of the Agoura amps, regardless
- I too wish there were new reverbs; I lean towards the least realistic reverbs with big splashy high frequencies and lots of tail. Hopefully we get that.
- Can we also get a a decent Digital Delay as well please?
- Overall I think the device was released too early, and this is probably one of a few times where I actually do feel like a paying beta tester; I didn't even feel that way when I had the Quad Cortex for the first time, a month after it launched.
- I have a lot of faith in Eric and the Line6 crew, enough to hold on for a while and see where this goes
 
Sascha Franck said:
For a change: Could we talk about some other things the Stadium series really needs instead of the endless accuracy talk?
What about a new round of a fine global blocks discussion?
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LOL. Crazy talk! I certainly agree though.
synthpenguin said:
My point is more that companies know that the average user does care about accurate captures and models. I think most companies are aiming for that within the restrictions of their platform(s). Being content with whatever the current "close enough" is is totally fine, and even positive and healthy, but I don't think it makes total sense with such a new platform that has a dev team that is openly looking to improve accuracy.
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I don't know. I think the "Average" Stadium owner doesn't likely own a bunch of amps that they bought the Stadium to capture. I think that the "average" digital amp owner just wants it to sound good.

I don't have any data to prove this other than the anecdotal information I see locally. I just believe that way more people play around with what others put together than those that are authors of their own tone and chain that they then share.

I think that Line 6 is definitely trying to appeal to the market of high end capture devices like QC. I think that no one in their right mind who would even consider a ToneX pedal is going to look anywhere near a Stadium..... any more than someone like me would consider ToneX :).

I do wonder though (to your point in the last sentence) how important MORE accuracy is on Line 6's list of work to-do? After all, Stadium has really awesome old models that need to be moved to the new Aurora models.

Can someone tell me what QC V2 is getting in the NULL test now?
 
OneEng said:
I don't know. I think the "Average" Stadium owner doesn't likely own a bunch of amps that they bought the Stadium to capture. I think that the "average" digital amp owner just wants it to sound good.
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That doesn't mean they don't care about accuracy. Do you even logic bro?

Not for you, for the audience. I know you're reading, and biting your fingers trying not to respond.
 
OneEng said:
I think it is completely reasonable to want capture and modeler tech to get better. I think that it is getting better, and I think that Proxy will definitely be getting better (but honestly, I would prefer they update the reverb engine first :) ).

I also believe that the focus being ONLY about the capture accuracy in a product with as many goodies in it as Stadium is kind silly.

If a Kemper MK1 user ONLY looked at the NULL tests, they might conclude that an MK1 is about even with Proxy in Stadium and therefore MK1 is just as good as Stadium. Clearly that isn't the case for a number of REALLY good reasons.

As for the Kemper having a version with better gain and dynamics, but further from the source .... very good question. I don't profile tube amps myself (sold all mine about a year after I bought my Kemper). I think I might actually prefer something that subjectively sounds "better" and feels "better" to something that simply "more accurate".

But isn't this true of one tube amp vs another?

No one would EVER say a MESA Triple Rectifier sounded exactly like a VHT UltraLead .... or that one felt like another, yet I greatly preferred my UL over my friends MESA in both the way it sounded in the mix AND how it played live.

What is interesting is that once I had a Kemper and had a zillion rigs of amps I could download and tweak, I found stuff I liked even better than my VHT UL.

Are they accurate? Beats me. Does it matter?

Very interesting line of discussion.
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This is all taking a fairly straightforward discussion into multiple tangents that are personal preference.

I think digital gear is solid on the whole, but real amps still have that extra something about them. Until that changes, they’re the benchmark. And that’s why we have component level modelling and capture tech to begin with.

FWIW none of my recent posts about accuracy have been about Proxy, i’m interested in Agoura here. Proxy seems quite good, albeit not leading the back. I think it’ll get better and there’s a lot of potential.

I also have faith in Line 6’s amp modelling, but I cannot understand why the new models so far sound the way they do. And I still stand by Hype and Pre Post Z being less than helpful if the underlying amp modelling is not absolutely locked in.
 
I guess some people have a misconception about the term "modeller" and what they are supposed to do.

It's always possible to make an accurate model sound "good" if they already don't, just like real amps, by using a different cab/mic/IR, EQ, compressor, drive, reverb etc. but it is way harder or impossible to make a good sounding model sound accurate.

Reading and ignoring the "wHat if it's not acCurate, it soUnDs gOod aNywaY." comments is overwhelming and tiring after some time.
 
Orvillain said:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com www.dropbox.com

Agoura Panama Blue (I know this is the OG - can't be helped right now!)
Axe FX III EVH5150III Stealth Blue
Quad Cortex EVH5150III Stealth Blue
Real 50-watt EVH5150III-50watt Stealth Blue
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Can someone please explain why Agoura Panama Blue is so odd sounding? I know it isn't the Stealth version, but I've had the two amps side by side before, and they're really not THAT different. But the Agoura Panama Blue sounds quite undergained to me versus the others, even though the knob positions were all very similar and should really result in similar sounds.

It is interesting how the frequency response of the Agoura is similar to the Axe FX III, and the Quad Cortex is closer to the real amp, but still a bit different.

I'm all ears - I had a Boss DD-500 running as a looper, feeding the instrument inputs of all devices. Same IR in all cases too. So about as fair a test as I can make it.
 
synthpenguin said:
I'm trying to imagine a company advertising their capture tech as "won't accurately capture your amp, but sounds nice and the FX are great."
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1774996013001.png
 
In 2026, if your product is one of those designed with pictures of the intended amplifier then it better be very close and authentic.
If it is just a generic or even homegrown amp model that gets you in the genre like Badonk or Juggernaut or FAS Dirty Pool Cue then accuracy is obviously not as important. I give grace to devices like Valeton based on price point.
If you just want to have a modeler with model names like High gain, EOB, clean, British clean...also fine, and I bet you can get it to sound good too but accuracy is null and void.
 
Bosons Tear said:
Being critical for good cause is not bad, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable betting against stadium. It just may evolve to be iconic
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This is exactly why I critisize Augora. It has a potential to be way better because we already know the quality/accuracy of the old HX models.

People seem to not know or remember the importance of being critical on these forums. It took about 8 years and a very adamant, persuasive James Freeman to make L6 model a proper JCM 800 with a bright cap. Before that I was struggling with the Marshall models a lot because they never sounded as I expected.
 
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Orvillain said:
Can someone please explain why Agoura Panama Blue is so odd sounding? I know it isn't the Stealth version, but I've had the two amps side by side before, and they're really not THAT different. But the Agoura Panama Blue sounds quite undergained to me versus the others, even though the knob positions were all very similar and should really result in similar sounds.

It is interesting how the frequency response of the Agoura is similar to the Axe FX III, and the Quad Cortex is closer to the real amp, but still a bit different.

I'm all ears - I had a Boss DD-500 running as a looper, feeding the instrument inputs of all devices. Same IR in all cases too. So about as fair a test as I can make it.
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I've been screwing with panama blue in the Stadium for weeks and I still can't get it right. You're not wrong. Lol
 
OneEng said:
I don't know. I think the "Average" Stadium owner doesn't likely own a bunch of amps that they bought the Stadium to capture. I think that the "average" digital amp owner just wants it to sound good.
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I think the average guitarist is expecting that captures and models of real world amps are aiming to be accurate recreations of those amps, and their impression of a platform’s ability to deliver that is a major factor in choosing it or not (but yeah, not the ONLY factor). That impression is usually based more on marketing, reviews, forum posts, videos, etc than first hand experience with most of the target amps, definitely, but still.

The exception to this is models not advertised as being models of real amps, like the Boss ones, the NDSP signature plugin amps, the FAS and Line 6 originals, etc

It’s the same with anything like this. If you’re buying a compressor plugin and it’s just advertised as a great, musical compressor, maybe with a certain vintage flavor, then you meet it on those terms; if you’re buying a compressor plugin and it’s marketed as being a model of an 1176, then you’re expecting that it’s aiming to be an accurate model of an 1176 that will act and react accordingly.
 
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