Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[mikah912]

After a bunch of weeks of ownership, I guess I can write up my thoughts:

General:
- The workflow is unparalleled. Genuinely I mean this when I say, Helix Stadium is the defacto standard when it comes to hardware modellers and their workflow, user experience, and user interface. It takes what devices like the QC and Headrush did, and basically says "hey.. let's do this RIGHT" - and I really vibe with it in that sense.
- Bugs, bugs, bugs. God, I can't wait for this thing to settle down. Quite a bit more buggier than Helix was at release. I don't begrudge it, and I'm not angry or anything. I know exactly how it gets in MI and the pressures to release. Right now Helix Stadium is a cool new toy I've got, but I can't and I'm not planning on using it for anything mission critical yet.
- Quality-wise, the hardware is clearly quite a large step up. The noise floor seems far superior to OG Helix; and it really pisses all over the Quad Cortex when it comes to 4-cable-method signal quality. It is basically neck and neck with the Axe3 now; whereas before OG Helix was just a tad behind the Axe3.
- I know I'm totally falling for eye candy, but I just really like seeing the skeuomorphic icons when browsing for things. I see amp head with pretty colours, I click yes. I'm a simple guy.
- The tuner is amazing. Easily as good as Fractal's now. No more whining from me about the tuner! It is what the OG Helix's should have been.
- Browsing IR's is too slow. There doesn't seem to be a way for me to just quickly scroll through a folder of IR's, unless I'm missing it?? I have to tap each one individually. This is one area of pain.
- On the whole though, there's just way less bullshit with Stadium to have to contend with. Take using SPDIF to record a dry DI signal.... it just works. No fucking around with levels, no having to apply a trim to it... no awkwardness when reamping it back through the Stadium. Even to this day, it baffles me how non-standard and illogical the Axe3 is when it comes to recording and reamping DI signals. (I can whinge about this in another thread if you want me to!)

Routing:
- Signal flow and routing on Stadium just makes sense. Creating splits just makes sense. Sending your guitar to your amp, while sending your guitars signal through a modelled amp to your computer, it just makes sense. Very little headscratching required. This kind of fluidity is super important to me.
- The quick setup templates are very useful. Setting up for 4-cable-method is much faster and more user friendly than the other platforms.
- And you can do all of this very quickly on the device. It doesn't make you feel like a computer is necessary.

Amps:
- Quite a lot of the time, I am finding that I prefer the Agoura tones to the competition; specifcally Helix Native, HX legacy amps, and a smattering of Axe FX III amps. Nearly every time I compared against any of my NDSP plugins, or Amplitube 5, Agoura impressed me much more with its tactile feel and sonics.
- I have to confess, I wasn't entirely expecting Stadium to hold its own against the Axe3; I genuinely expected Axe3 to still be top dog. But there are quite a few cases where I just outright prefer the Agoura model. The Revv Generator and the Bogner XTC; both are way better for my tastes on Agoura than Axe3. But the Axe3's EVH5150III amps are way superior to the Agoura ones. In fact, I just straight up don't really like the Agoura ones. They lack the brightness and the aggression that the real amp has, and that the Axe3 accurately duplicates.
- There have been a few instances where I fired up an amp model on another platform, and compared to Agoura, and Agoura left me baffled with how it sounded. To the point where I would get immediate disatisfication and buyers remorse. However in nearly all of these cases, the problem was the model defaults and the stock cabs. Addressing them resulted in tones I was a lot happier with. I'm still finding my feet with it I guess.
- I feel like the masters are overall a bit too high. My typical thing to do when I first load an amp model is turn down the masters, and turn up the 'level' parameter to compensate for volume loss. This helps to avoid too much power amp distortion, and cleans up palm mutes a bit.
- Sometimes there's a bit of a fuzziness to the tone though, even when doing this. Kind of hard to identify but it is something myself and @MirrorProfiles have conversed about many times; often arriving at differing viewpoints!
- There does seem to be a bit of a 'dark' character to the amps overall. Sometimes it is difficult to get the same amount of fizziness that you'd get from a real amp. It is a subtle thing, but I notice it.

Effects:
- I've whinged about reverbs before. I don't really like them. That's all I need to say. Not going to beat that dead horse.
- Cosmos Echo; man.... I forgot how fucking amazing that one is. It is easily up there with the other Space Echo type models and plugins out there in music tech land. It is probably one of my favourite versions of this effect.
- I'd really like a bog standard Boss DDx style delay, where the feedback and mix knobs just work like they do on those simple pedals. Simple Delay aint really the one.
- Going with the Stadium XL for the 4 FX loops was definitely the right choice for me. I plan on making extensive use of those in the future.
- Consequently.... there isn't a ton of stuff to really get excited about in effects land yet. But I do have faith that the platform will improve in this area in the future.

All in all, I feel good about my purchase. But at the same time, I feel more like an early adopter with this product than I ever have with any other guitar gear in the past. This isn't a bad thing, but it is certainly a thing.

I'm not intending on selling my Axe3. I thought I might before I got Stadium. I thought if the workflow was better (it is) and the sounds were just as good (nearly always as good) that I wouldn't need my Axe3 anymore... but I can't bear to part with it. Ironically, buying the Stadium has not only made me appreciate Stadium, but has also made me appreciate my Axe3 more.

Feeling very good about my decision to sell my 2nd Quad Cortex earlier this year, and feeling good about my decision to not purchase a Headrush Prime too.

Great writeup, man. Fair and detailed, for sure.

I will say, I had some random Kemper Ionosphere and Axe-FX Simeon Harris preset videos float into my YouTube, and yeah....Stadium isn't there on the super creative ambient reverb/delay/synth whatever yet.

Excited to see what they roll down the pike, tho. Norm's first stabs - the Dynamic Reverbs - were a very good first step.

 

[EOengineer]

- I feel like the masters are overall a bit too high. My typical thing to do when I first load an amp model is turn down the masters, and turn up the 'level' parameter to compensate for volume loss. This helps to avoid too much power amp distortion, and cleans up palm mutes a bit.
- Sometimes there's a bit of a fuzziness to the tone though, even when doing this. Kind of hard to identify but it is something myself and @MirrorProfiles have conversed about many times; often arriving at differing viewpoints!

I’ve definitely been turning the master down between 3-4 on a number of the amps, high gain ones especially. There’s a woofiness that comes along with the higher master settings that I’m finding requires some effort to manage. I find it helps a bit with the fuzziness you mentioned as well.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I’ve definitely been turning the master down between 3-4 on a number of the amps, high gain ones especially. There’s a woofiness that comes along with the higher master settings that I’m finding requires some effort to manage. I find it helps a bit with the fuzziness you mentioned as well.

That’s how most real amps behave though anyway. Even something like a Mark IIC+ RI at five (if you can handle the volume) sounds woofy.

 

[paisleywookiee]

So basically, Line 6 needs to have all bugs fixed. showcase and Proxy deployed, and a Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+, IV, and Badlander all set by the time my Splenda Stadium shows up in late January. I hope DI is taking notes.

 

[banned]

After a bunch of weeks of ownership, I guess I can write up my thoughts:

General:
- The workflow is unparalleled. Genuinely I mean this when I say, Helix Stadium is the defacto standard when it comes to hardware modellers and their workflow, user experience, and user interface. It takes what devices like the QC and Headrush did, and basically says "hey.. let's do this RIGHT" - and I really vibe with it in that sense.
- Bugs, bugs, bugs. God, I can't wait for this thing to settle down. Quite a bit more buggier than Helix was at release. I don't begrudge it, and I'm not angry or anything. I know exactly how it gets in MI and the pressures to release. Right now Helix Stadium is a cool new toy I've got, but I can't and I'm not planning on using it for anything mission critical yet.
- Quality-wise, the hardware is clearly quite a large step up. The noise floor seems far superior to OG Helix; and it really pisses all over the Quad Cortex when it comes to 4-cable-method signal quality. It is basically neck and neck with the Axe3 now; whereas before OG Helix was just a tad behind the Axe3.
- I know I'm totally falling for eye candy, but I just really like seeing the skeuomorphic icons when browsing for things. I see amp head with pretty colours, I click yes. I'm a simple guy.
- The tuner is amazing. Easily as good as Fractal's now. No more whining from me about the tuner! It is what the OG Helix's should have been.
- Browsing IR's is too slow. There doesn't seem to be a way for me to just quickly scroll through a folder of IR's, unless I'm missing it?? I have to tap each one individually. This is one area of pain.
- On the whole though, there's just way less bullshit with Stadium to have to contend with. Take using SPDIF to record a dry DI signal.... it just works. No fucking around with levels, no having to apply a trim to it... no awkwardness when reamping it back through the Stadium. Even to this day, it baffles me how non-standard and illogical the Axe3 is when it comes to recording and reamping DI signals. (I can whinge about this in another thread if you want me to!)

Routing:
- Signal flow and routing on Stadium just makes sense. Creating splits just makes sense. Sending your guitar to your amp, while sending your guitars signal through a modelled amp to your computer, it just makes sense. Very little headscratching required. This kind of fluidity is super important to me.
- The quick setup templates are very useful. Setting up for 4-cable-method is much faster and more user friendly than the other platforms.
- And you can do all of this very quickly on the device. It doesn't make you feel like a computer is necessary.

Amps:
- Quite a lot of the time, I am finding that I prefer the Agoura tones to the competition; specifcally Helix Native, HX legacy amps, and a smattering of Axe FX III amps. Nearly every time I compared against any of my NDSP plugins, or Amplitube 5, Agoura impressed me much more with its tactile feel and sonics.
- I have to confess, I wasn't entirely expecting Stadium to hold its own against the Axe3; I genuinely expected Axe3 to still be top dog. But there are quite a few cases where I just outright prefer the Agoura model. The Revv Generator and the Bogner XTC; both are way better for my tastes on Agoura than Axe3. But the Axe3's EVH5150III amps are way superior to the Agoura ones. In fact, I just straight up don't really like the Agoura ones. They lack the brightness and the aggression that the real amp has, and that the Axe3 accurately duplicates.
- There have been a few instances where I fired up an amp model on another platform, and compared to Agoura, and Agoura left me baffled with how it sounded. To the point where I would get immediate disatisfication and buyers remorse. However in nearly all of these cases, the problem was the model defaults and the stock cabs. Addressing them resulted in tones I was a lot happier with. I'm still finding my feet with it I guess.
- I feel like the masters are overall a bit too high. My typical thing to do when I first load an amp model is turn down the masters, and turn up the 'level' parameter to compensate for volume loss. This helps to avoid too much power amp distortion, and cleans up palm mutes a bit.
- Sometimes there's a bit of a fuzziness to the tone though, even when doing this. Kind of hard to identify but it is something myself and @MirrorProfiles have conversed about many times; often arriving at differing viewpoints!
- There does seem to be a bit of a 'dark' character to the amps overall. Sometimes it is difficult to get the same amount of fizziness that you'd get from a real amp. It is a subtle thing, but I notice it.

Effects:
- I've whinged about reverbs before. I don't really like them. That's all I need to say. Not going to beat that dead horse.
- Cosmos Echo; man.... I forgot how fucking amazing that one is. It is easily up there with the other Space Echo type models and plugins out there in music tech land. It is probably one of my favourite versions of this effect.
- I'd really like a bog standard Boss DDx style delay, where the feedback and mix knobs just work like they do on those simple pedals. Simple Delay aint really the one.
- Going with the Stadium XL for the 4 FX loops was definitely the right choice for me. I plan on making extensive use of those in the future.
- Consequently.... there isn't a ton of stuff to really get excited about in effects land yet. But I do have faith that the platform will improve in this area in the future.

All in all, I feel good about my purchase. But at the same time, I feel more like an early adopter with this product than I ever have with any other guitar gear in the past. This isn't a bad thing, but it is certainly a thing.

I'm not intending on selling my Axe3. I thought I might before I got Stadium. I thought if the workflow was better (it is) and the sounds were just as good (nearly always as good) that I wouldn't need my Axe3 anymore... but I can't bear to part with it. Ironically, buying the Stadium has not only made me appreciate Stadium, but has also made me appreciate my Axe3 more.

Feeling very good about my decision to sell my 2nd Quad Cortex earlier this year, and feeling good about my decision to not purchase a Headrush Prime too.

I agree with you. Love the hardware and the new tuner! I will also add that the feel is much improved on Fenders.

This is the part that made me return mine -

"- There does seem to be a bit of a 'dark' character to the amps overall. Sometimes it is difficult to get the same amount of fizziness that you'd get from a real amp. It is a subtle thing, but I notice it."

Tonally, it seems like certain frequencies are missing when you go into a guitar cab. I had to crank the treble/presence on some models to get it to have that edge and spank that real amps have. Once I did that - it sounded fine. But then, there was nothing further left on the knob to go - it's all maxed out.

I will note that I didn't notice this so much when playing into monitors / headphones. Kinda puzzling.

 

[StarF666]

Btw the new Agoura bass amps also sound very good (even on bass).

 

[paisleywookiee]

Btw the new Agoura bass amps also sound very good (even on bass).

Nobody cares what the bass tones are like. Just pick the Sansamp, go DI, and be done.







Just kidding bassists, don't hurt me.

 

[Digital Igloo]

It takes what devices like the QC and Headrush did, and basically says "hey.. let's do this RIGHT" - and I really vibe with it in that sense.

More like "QC and Headrush took massive chunks of what Helix did, and added a touchscreen. Whereas Line 6 had a touchscreen-based Helix design back in 2012 and finally released it 13 years later."

 

[EOengineer]

That’s how most real amps behave though anyway. Even something like a Mark IIC+ RI at five (if you can handle the volume) sounds woofy.

Yeah totally. My Recto and Mark III usually hover around 3 for tracking. I’m not saying it’s a problem with Stadium, just that it’s an issue with some cranked high gain amps. With the Recto you can even get blocking distortion if you are insane enough.

 

[AZG]

Admittedly, I’m still on the fence. Some models I do like more on the Stadium (Bogner and Revv), others no preference, and then some I like more on the Fractal (Marshals, Vox when including Morgan and Matchless), and then there is tons of amps just missing on the Stadium. I’m really missing some of the advanced features from Fractal that can quickly take an average amp to outstanding. Some effects on the Stadium are great, but overall I still prefer Fractal. UI of course is no contest. But I prefer fractal’s computer editor.

I still have a few more weeks to decide so I’m trying to keep an open mind and see if I have a breakthrough that pushes me one way or the other.

 

[ispunk]

Nobody cares what the bass tones are like. Just pick the Sansamp, go DI, and be done.







Just kidding bassists, don't hurt me.

Yeah that's great if you're a bassist who enjoys having a bog standard boring bass tone. I mean I know the guys who have that tone are usually as lame to watch on stage but that's not all of us.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Yeah that's great if you're a bassist who enjoys having a bog standard boring bass tone. I mean I know the guys who have that tone are usually as lame to watch on stage but that's not all of us.

Read the fine print, guy.

 

[Gary_W]

I’ve had mine for three weeks today - I absolutely love it. The sound, the feel, the interface and I’m also excited by what it’s likely to evolve into. Life has been busy the last few weeks so there still tons in here I haven’t scratched the surface with.

I agree with comments on here that default mic choice can be a little odd….. Also, I keep forgetting to play with hype if something is close but not quite - I’ll fart about with other things but I really must go there a little sooner.

 

[EOengineer]

Admittedly, I’m still on the fence. Some models I do like more on the Stadium (Bogner and Revv), others no preference, and then some I like more on the Fractal (Marshals, Vox when including Morgan and Matchless), and then there is tons of amps just missing on the Stadium. I’m really missing some of the advanced features from Fractal that can quickly take an average amp to outstanding. Some effects on the Stadium are great, but overall I still prefer Fractal. UI of course is no contest. But I prefer fractal’s computer editor.

The Rev in Stadium is VERY good. I came out of the gate bitching about Stadium not having a Recto and it kinda shut me up. Those contour and aggression controls are EFFECTIVE.

I also have to give L6 the nod on the 2203. I’m not saying Fractal can’t match it, but there’s just a little extra mojo in the Stadium 2203x that I haven’t figured out how to tease out of the AM4. I could see L6 pulling of a great 1959 eventually too.

 

[banned]

I will say there is something about the character and feel in some of the L6 models that seems just right. But the same could be said of Fractal with some other amp models. Could also be down to the actual individual amps that they're modeling. Modern amps are going to be tighter tolerances....vintage amps could have some very real differences.

With L6, I find the Deluxe Reverb is lacking some air for example. Conversely, that Hiwatt just sounds brilliant when you dial it in right. I also like the 2203 more on the L6. And that Tweed Bassman is glorious....but you have to crank the treble and presence....which I know is not the case with a real Bassman. So again, there's that 'missing frequencies' issue.

With some of the Fractal models, there is some fizz, crackle, sputter, that sometimes comes across to me like they have a randomizer algorithm in there or something to make it seem more real. I get the intent...but I'm not sure I fully dig it.

In the end, both companies are going to keep pushing the boundaries of white-box modeling. The Stadium is on Rev 1 - they're just getting started here and there's so much to go. Will have to give it some time. I expect great things from both and am glad that we have unbelievable options like these today.

 

[AZG]

I also have to give L6 the nod on the 2203. I’m not saying Fractal can’t match it, but there’s just a little extra mojo in the Stadium 2203x that I haven’t figured out how to tease out of the AM4. I could see L6 pulling of a great 1959 eventually too.

I guess this is a case of we all hear things differently. I greatly prefer the 2203 on the Fractal. It’s so much more dynamic and touch sensitive for me.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

The tuner is amazing. Easily as good as Fractal's now.

We’re going to disagree on this one. Strobe mode is just okay. Needle mode is a jumpy mess, just like the Helix. No contest when compared to the Fractal tuner, which is by far the better of the two. I could set intonation with the Fractal tuner. Wouldn’t even attempt it with the Stadium.

 

[molul]

I could set intonation with the Fractal tuner. Wouldn’t even attempt it with the Stadium.

Feel the same with my LT. I wonder if it could be fixed with a "sensitivity" knob so it's less jumpy.

 

[Orvillain]

We’re going to disagree on this one. Strobe mode is just okay. Needle mode is a jumpy mess, just like the Helix. No contest when compared to the Fractal tuner, which is by far the better of the two. I could set intonation with the Fractal tuner. Wouldn’t even attempt it with the Stadium.

LET'S FIIIIIGGHHHTTTT!!!

 

[EOengineer]

Who tunes anymore anyway JFC.