Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[Mongillo19]

What I read mentioned unspecified Stadium features and maybe a new L6 product. Just reiterating - likely BS but fun to consider.

I can't fathom another product but DI has even mentioned features not yet announced.

All fun speculation!

 

[GTR37]

I can't fathom another product but DI has even mentioned features not yet announced.

All fun speculation!

Here is some useless speculation they have no Mesa amps in Helix launch because they are working with MESA
I mean Mesa licences their models to IK and Amplitube why not work with L6

Ok silly hat off back to real stadium stuff

 

[EOengineer]

Here is some useless speculation they have no Mesa amps in Helix launch because they are working with MESA

 

[paisleywookiee]

I’ve lost track of whether we’re talking about Helix or Stadium here. The issue with the OG Helix is that the individual channels of any given amp are realized as different blocks, so you need to add multiple blocks and toggle their bypass states in snapshots. That’s totally doable, but the question began with whether the channel parameter in a Stadium amp block could be be changed per preset. (I’m guessing yes.)

Basically, I set up my FM9 like this:

1. Set to "Per-Patch layout"
2. One foot switch toggles between two channels of amp block
3. One foot switch toggles between two other channels of amp block
4. Remaining footswitches toggle on/off each effect.
5. Voila. Pedalboard, with channel switcher

I want to know if/how/when/can the Helix Stadium accomplish this same or similar thing.

 

[Whizzinby]

Are we talking about Stadium being able to change the specific loaded amps “channel” (SLO clean to SLO lead) or the FAS version of channel, which means any four models of that type? (SLO lead, Recto Orange, Plexi, 800)

The FAS approach is epic, but at least being able to change a specific amps channel without loading a second, third or fourth amp block is nice.

 

[GTR37]

Are we talking about Stadium being able to change the specific loaded amps “channel” (SLO clean to SLO lead) or the FAS version of channel, which means any four models of that type? (SLO lead, Recto Orange, Plexi, 800)

The FAS approach is epic, but at least being able to change a specific amps channel without loading a second, third or fourth amp block is nice.

I would love for line6 to do a virtual A/B which would basically be like channels
You could have 1 amp active per path with a second available w a foot tap so you can always have any 2 available and 2 different ones on the stomp

 

[paisleywookiee]

Are we talking about Stadium being able to change the specific loaded amps “channel” (SLO clean to SLO lead) or the FAS version of channel, which means any four models of that type? (SLO lead, Recto Orange, Plexi, 800)

The FAS approach is epic, but at least being able to change a specific amps channel without loading a second, third or fourth amp block is nice.

Well I already know it can't do what the FM9 can, i.e. load a block with say 1. Recto 2. JCM800 3. Mark IV 4. SLO100. However, if I can at least easily switch the three channels of the SLO100, along with turn effects on and off, that would be great.

 

[Whizzinby]

Well I already know it can't do what the FM9 can, i.e. load a block with say 1. Recto 2. JCM800 3. Mark IV 4. SLO100. However, if I can at least easily switch the three channels of the SLO100, along with turn effects on and off, that would be great.

Yeah that’s what I was trying to figure out, what “channel” meant in the context of the discussion, because that means different things on different platforms.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Yeah that’s what I was trying to figure out, what “channel” meant in the context of the discussion, because that means different things on different platforms.

Yeah I probably worded it poorly.

I guess I'm really excited about Helix Stadium, was otherwise very tired of the tedious nature of the Fractal UI, but the channel feature was the one "killer app" for me personally, on Fractal.

 

[mikah912]

I'll keep ringing this bell too.

It's impressive that Stadium can switch channels in one block, but that is seriously undercut by the fact that there are a lot of exceptions already (e.g. REVV Generator 120, 5153, Bogner Ecstasy) and that list will only grow.

Line 6 could definitely use an A/B or A/B/C block to really help us optimize routing on Stadium. Until they get one, Fractal will have a unique selling point advantage there.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I'll keep ringing this bell too.

It's impressive that Stadium can switch channels in one block, but that is seriously undercut by the fact that there are a lot of exceptions already (e.g. REVV Generator 120, 5153, Bogner Ecstasy) and that list will only grow.

Line 6 could definitely use an A/B or A/B/C block to really help us optimize routing on Stadium. Until they get one, Fractal will have a unique selling point advantage there.

Yeah, it's definitely a tough one to ignore. For example, my "British Isles" preset had a JCM800 2204, JTM45, Orange Rockerverb, and Vox AC30. Is this going to be possible in Stadium, and if so, how, and how easy is it to set up?

 

[ian_dissonance]

Yeah, it's definitely a tough one to ignore. For example, my "British Isles" preset had a JCM800 2204, JTM45, Orange Rockerverb, and Vox AC30. Is this going to be possible in Stadium, and if so, how, and how easy is it to set up?

That does being up the question of DSP allocation, too. Being able to switch three channels on one block is cool, but if that block requires 3x DSP because 2 channels are idle in the background and you want more amps you might be limited, where a channel per block might allow more amps. It’s also possible that the multi-channel amps work digitally like the analog counterpart in that a lot of the “guts” are shared across channels so the extra DSP hit is only for the different components across channels (like you wouldn’t need three separate power section models or input section models when you have a multichannel amp).

 

[paisleywookiee]

That does being up the question of DSP allocation, too. Being able to switch three channels on one block is cool, but if that block requires 3x DSP because 2 channels are idle in the background and you want more amps you might be limited, where a channel per block might allow more amps. It’s also possible that the multi-channel amps work digitally like the analog counterpart in that a lot of the “guts” are shared across channels so the extra DSP hit is only for the different components across channels (like you wouldn’t need three separate power section models or input section models when you have a multichannel amp).

Yeah, I mean I'm just some goof on the internet, and can't possibly claim to know how Fractal does it vs. Line 6 or whatever. I just like the feature.
Does the FM9's DSP utilization go up as you add amps to each channel slot? I don't remember, and now it's gone.

 

[EOengineer]

I'll keep ringing this bell too.

It's impressive that Stadium can switch channels in one block, but that is seriously undercut by the fact that there are a lot of exceptions already (e.g. REVV Generator 120, 5153, Bogner Ecstasy) and that list will only grow.

Line 6 could definitely use an A/B or A/B/C block to really help us optimize routing on Stadium. Until they get one, Fractal will have a unique selling point advantage there.

This is a concern I share. I’m sure there’s a reason, as there usually is with L6, but the channels as separate models thing feels like the result of a poor abstraction somewhere. I don’t love having to load two separate models and an AB switch/path to change channels on an amp.

It seems like this is a decision that’s already been made so I’m kind of waiting to see how this shakes out long term as we see other multichannel amps arrive.

 

[mikah912]

To be clear, this isn't anywhere near a deal breaker for me. I do and will use the Soldano and the 2203 A LOT, and both of those have all of the channels integrated in one block where it'll be easy to assign channel changes to snapshots.

But it's notable that they picked 13 guitar amps to be the proof of concept/bedrock for Stadium, and almost 25 percent of those are too burly to be integrated from the jump. Also notable that all of those are modern high-gain, which might be a problem for those types of amps going forward.

Now, maybe this will be a case where DSP optimizations down the line get those 3 (Bogner, REVV, EVH) reintegrated into single blocks with switchable channels, and this is all much ado about nothing.

Maybe Line 6 figures out a clever way next year to toggle them. I dunno.

It's just that the massive efficiency and UI gains pretty much EVERYWHERE else in Stadium kinda highlight how clunky this particular approach is.

 

[Digital Igloo]

It just depends on the amp. If two or more channels of the real amp are sufficiently different and require significant changes to the underling DSP tools, loading them all might go over our (admittedly arbitrary and self-imposed) DSP limit per amp. At one point we had flirted with the idea of perhaps "dumbing them down" a bit to fit, but screw that—best in class accuracy or nothing.

On the plus side, 1.2 will now have three new amps (7 channels total) instead of two. Just got the new one in this morning's 1.2 build.

 

[EOengineer]

On the plus side, 1.2 will now have three new amps (7 channels total) instead of two. Just got the new one in this morning's 1.2 build.

Does it rhyme with any of the following:
1. Snark IIC+
2. Pool Rectifier
3. Nipple Rectifier

 

[GTR37]

It just depends on the amp. If two or more channels of the real amp are sufficiently different and require significant changes to the underling DSP tools, loading them all might go over our (admittedly arbitrary and self-imposed) DSP limit per amp. At one point we had flirted with the idea of perhaps "dumbing them down" a bit to fit, but screw that—best in class accuracy or nothing.

On the plus side, 1.2 will now have three new amps (7 channels total) instead of two. Just got the new one in this morning's 1.2 build.

What are your thoughts on something like a virtual AB ?
Is that something that COULD be done or is it a similar situation to the old spillover where you would basically loose a tone of horsepower

That exciting for the first release with now 3 new amps
So the baldlander what are the other two

 

[GTR37]

Does it rhyme with any of the following:
1. Snark IIC+
2. Pool Rectifier
3. Nipple Rectifier

I will say
Matchless Chieftain
Marshall Silver
One Mesa Mk or Recto

 

[Digital Igloo]

Does it rhyme with any of the following:
1. Snark IIC+
2. Pool Rectifier
3. Nipple Rectifier

I will say that two of the 1.2 Agoura amps have never existed in Helix before and the other one has.

What are your thoughts on something like a virtual AB?

It's something we've talked about at length but there are a lot of other things we need to get to first.