Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[Chocol8]

ToneX One gets away with it because it's relatively simple.

Along with the simple feature set, Tonex One also gets away with it because it is tiny and under $200.

If you can deliver Agora and Proxy in a mini pedal for $179, I think a lot of people would accept a PC or iPad editor. I wouldn't expect you to deliver such a thing anytime soon even if you could, but it would sell well.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Think of all that space in the chassis, after you scoop out the extra models!

You misspelled modules!

 

[Chocol8]

You misspelled modules!

Are all the amp models going to be stored on banks of memory modules? That would be...interesting.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Right, it's more like sorting through a list of amp models and then fiddling with all the settings available within the model and the pre or post options as well. In my experience there is little difference in how deep the rabbit holes can be between modeling or captures or how quickly one can navigate and avoid them. In either case, you can slog for hours, but if you do, that's your fault.

I’ve yet to audition a capture device where I found a sound I liked by cycling through captures, and I have yet to audition a capture device where I felt like the could adjust something close into what I wanted without additional compromises. With modeling I can find a gain structure I like, turn some knobs and be done.

 

[Chocol8]

I’ve yet to audition a capture device where I found a sound I liked by cycling through captures, and I have yet to audition a capture device where I felt like the could adjust something close into what I wanted without additional compromises.

Once again, your inability to use the technology does not indicate a flaw in the technology itself. Many many other players have had no trouble finding good sounding captures and dialing them in. I don't know what you are doing wrong but I suspect it is simply a matter of making your mind up in advance and being so biased/vested that you won't allow yourself to get a good tone.

 

[mikah912]

I'm not a huge capture person (have moved on from both Kemper and Quad Cortex, and have an unused Tonex Max license I have never installed), but I don't see the sense in the binary nature of the capture discussion.

Instead of the tech being the worst or best thing to happen to guitar amp simulation, I look at it more as a simple utility like impulse responses. Yes, if you let yourself, you can spend an inordinate amount of time auditioning files in folders trying to find some ever-elusive gold.

Or....you find a source you trust and dial in one or two of their iterations and go from there. When @Burger started making captures of all of his amazing Marshall mods for Quad Cortex, I didn't really need to spend time scrolling and clicking to find something that worked. He has a great ear and captured the essence of each of his mods in 1-2 captures per amp.

No different from the way I'll buy a pack of IRs from, say, York Audio, but rarely use more than the "01" mic mix version of each speaker in the pack.

I get what @Digital Igloo is saying, and that's why I don't mess with the four kaziilion factory IRs that come with my FM9. It's usually either a Dynacab I can tweak in real time or something like @2112's ever-useful TV Mix 7 IR. But I will also use the 1-2 trusty mixes in my York Audio packs. Both ways work, and I'm sure they'll work for Proxy and Agoura living side-by-side.

I do beg of you, tho, DI: Please make detailed metadata a requirement for cloud uploads for Agoura captures. Don't make the same mistakes Neural DSP did.....

 

[KingsXJJ]

Dear Tiny Baby Jesus, Bless the Beta Testers for without them thy Stadium Stomp would not be possible.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Once again, your inability to use the technology does not indicate a flaw in the technology itself. Many many other players have had no trouble finding good sounding captures and dialing them in. I don't know what you are doing wrong but I suspect it is simply a matter of making your mind up in advance and being so biased/vested that you won't allow yourself to get a good tone.

I’ve found exceedingly few existing captures that I’ve liked, out of probably hundreds by now. Not saying it’s not possible, but it’s definitely been frustrating.

The only reason I’m currently having a NAM boner is because I’m capturing my own stuff.

 

[AZG]

I saw this list on the "other site" of what will be available at launch and what will come at some point after launch. Is there anything incorrect or missing from this list? Any timeframes of how long missing items are going to take to release? Looking at the Line 6 Stadium web site makes it sound like everything will be available at launch. I really wish they would be clear on their site what will be available and not available at launch.

Stadium will have at launch:

1. Agoura amp models (around 16 models with about 42 channels)
2. Focus view
3. Hype control
4. Showcase features
5. Preset audition
6. More headroom than regular Helix
7. Includes everything from the 1st generation Helix
8. Excellent touch screen
9. Usability improvements including search, etc.
10. More processing power
11. Improved signal chain options
12. Basic librarian software

Stadium won’t have at launch:

1. Proxy (captures)
2. New effects
3. New synth sounds
4. New and improved looper (only minor changes at launch)
5. Helix Stadium editing software

Updated list based on feedback from @Digital Igloo

Stadium will have at launch:

1. Agoura amp models (around 16 models with about 42 channels)
2. Focus view
3. Hype control
4. Showcase features
5. Preset audition
6. More headroom than regular Helix
7. Stadium includes most things from the 1st generation Helix like effects, amps, and preset compatibility. However the following things have been removed. Older Hybrid cab engine, Dedicated VDI and L6 LINK jacks (Expand D10 is coming next year), CV Out jack (No one used it)
8. Excellent touch screen
9. Usability improvements including search, etc.
10. More processing power
11. Improved signal chain options
12. Basic librarian software

Stadium won’t have at launch:

1. Proxy (captures)
2. New effects
3. New synth sounds
4. New and improved looper (only minor changes at launch)
5. Pedal Edit Mode (They're talking about something different)
6. Preset Spillover (They're talking about something different),
7. Helix Stadium editing software

 

[Sascha Franck]

With the inflationary amount of NAM files (and we're likely only at the beginning), this will possibly become the same as it's been with IRs, namely an endless rabbit hole. Which possibly is the positive aspect of proprietary formats a la QC and KPA - you do at least need the hardware, so not every single hack on earth can upload and share their captures of whatever it might be on Tonezone3000.
Also, with the QC and KPA, you can at least kinda access captures more or less straight on the unit, whereas with NAM profiles you have to download them, possibly prelisten to them in whatever NAM plugin (all of them offering no proper onboard database management) and finally transfer them to whatever hardware.
During the time that takes I would've created a dozen gigworthy patches within any decent component modeling hardware.

 

[KingsXJJ]

You can preview the NAM files right on the website.

 

[paisleywookiee]

You can preview the NAM files right on the website.

Pre-recorded tracks though, right? That’s all I’ve found.

 

[sashimi]

I’ve found exceedingly few existing captures that I’ve liked, out of probably hundreds by now. Not saying it’s not possible, but it’s definitely been frustrating.

The only reason I’m currently having a NAM boner is because I’m capturing my own stuff.

I see this as the only real reason I would get into captures - to actually capture gear I already have access to. I don’t see the point in downloading captures when I already get great sounds out of amp models, and I can turn all the knobs.

With the inflationary amount of NAM files (and we're likely only at the beginning), this will possibly become the same as it's been with IRs, namely an endless rabbit hole. Which possibly is the positive aspect of proprietary formats a la QC and KPA - you do at least need the hardware, so not every single hack on earth can upload and share their captures of whatever it might be on Tonezone3000.
Also, with the QC and KPA, you can at least kinda access captures more or less straight on the unit, whereas with NAM profiles you have to download them, possibly prelisten to them in whatever NAM plugin (all of them offering no proper onboard database management) and finally transfer them to whatever hardware.
During the time that takes I would've created a dozen gigworthy patches within any decent component modeling hardware.

100%. This is why I stopped using IRs and even auditioning different cabs in helix. I found what I like and I stick with it. I’m doing this to play guitar, not browse through folders auditioning files.

Also I don’t like the idea that I might be playing a capture of an amp model passed off as the real thing.

If I ever buy a helix stadium I will try proxy, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not a big selling point to me.

 

[Lysander]

Why force users to update on day one and not just add 1.1 at the factory? Because that would delay everyone getting their Helix Stadium by months, and by then there'd probably be a 1.2 ready; you'd want to update anyway. Personally, I'd prefer that, but our customers sure wouldn't.

Is this really an issue with OTA updates? As long as the process doesn't require manually plugging the device to a PC and downloading software, rolling firmwares might even be seen as a plus.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Once again, your inability to use the technology does not indicate a flaw in the technology itself. Many many other players have had no trouble finding good sounding captures and dialing them in. I don't know what you are doing wrong but I suspect it is simply a matter of making your mind up in advance and being so biased/vested that you won't allow yourself to get a good tone.

I play an octave and a half below most guitar players. Nobody is making profiles (for free) for that kind of stuff or if they are they have a shit idea of what a tone is. There’s nothing wrong with my ability to use the tools.

 

[Chocol8]

I’ve found exceedingly few existing captures that I’ve liked, out of probably hundreds by now. Not saying it’s not possible, but it’s definitely been frustrating.

The only reason I’m currently having a NAM boner is because I’m capturing my own stuff.

My experience with free captures is that most are worth less than what you paid for them except free captures offered as samples by the top tier paid captures vendors. I don't think that changes between Kemper, Tonex, and NAM and likely QC, and it is similar to finding random free IR's vs going direct to reliable sources.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Pre-recorded tracks though, right? That’s all I’ve found.

Yes, kinda like Jensen does with guitar speakers. It’s better than nothing but being able to upload a smallish audio file would def be better.

 

[Vic Winters]

I have a feeling we'll see a new hardware SKU when Proxy launches.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I have a feeling we'll see a new hardware SKU when Proxy launches.

Ah, the Stadium Player.

 

[Orvillain]

I’ve yet to audition a capture device where I found a sound I liked by cycling through captures, and I have yet to audition a capture device where I felt like the could adjust something close into what I wanted without additional compromises. With modeling I can find a gain structure I like, turn some knobs and be done.

Honestly, within a window, I've had some really good sounding captures from my amps over the years, even the Kemper ones. I generally haven't found many others that I liked out in the world though. For me, I'm always a bit surprised (but also kinda not) at how people are so willing to just use off the shelf captures, without making their own.