Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

Sascha Franck said:
Offerings like this should be forbidden. Being curious about european asking prices, I found a shop from the Netherlands:

View attachment 50861

Nowhere does it say that this is just the preorder-deposit, the final asking price isn't announced, either, and there's also a whole lot of other misinformation or information not matching the picture ("12 OLED scratch strips" for starters).

But then, even Anderton's isn't telling the final asking price. I mean, they could as well just ask 3k for it, you wouldn't accept and they'd keep your deposit.
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Dolores-bait.
 
Sascha Franck said:
Already seen (not watched) it. As long as you can generate clicks, it doesn't seem to matter whether you make a tool out of yourself anymore.
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Huh? I just saw it and posted it… I used to like this guy but he has gotten too weird for me. Some like him. He sure has a ton of gear
 
FuzzyAce said:
The corniness aside, I actually agree with his overall premise. I do think modeled tones have reached a sort of plateau and the interest lies more in features/processes, routing capabilities, and user interface. Many are very content with the tones they are currently getting from Fractal or HX, or any number of other modelers. But, the Stadium hasn't been released yet either, so maybe the Agoura amps will be so much "better" that you can actually hear and feel it? Do they even need to be better for some users? The efx side of things, especially verbs and delays, seems to be where HX could make significant gains in the tonal department, though. Time will tell.
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I get that. The touchscreen is overdue on the helix so it’s more like a meh to me… I find the morphing ability on the screen like my old divorce modeler I had a long time ago to be the coolest addition as well as the hinted at advanced looping capabilities. All you guys not caring about NEW MODELING should have told line 6 this and saved then a lot of money on r&d and they could have just released the stadium with same helix effects and tones and not bothered with shouts till it’s perfected anyhow.. like in the next thing… the fan base will still buy stadium if that was the case. I am not sold on shouts anyhow yet
 
timbuck3 said:
I get that. The touchscreen is overdue on the helix so it’s more like a meh to me… I find the morphing ability on the screen like my old divorce modeler I had a long time ago to be the coolest addition as well as the hinted at advanced looping capabilities. All you guys not caring about NEW MODELING should have told line 6 this and saved then a lot of money on r&d and they could have just released the stadium with same helix effects and tones and not bothered with shouts till it’s perfected anyhow.. like in the next thing… the fan base will still buy stadium if that was the case. I am not sold on shouts anyhow yet
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To be fair, I haven't been using HX no where near as long as many so I get long-time users want change for the sake of it. It's good to keep moving forward and creating new things. I do care about new modeling though, but I've always been more of a sit and wait kind of guy and not jumping too soon into something. Chances are I'll end with a Stadium eventually. Functionally it looks very promising.
 
Digital Igloo said:
Yeah, I had all the Redmatica stuff back in the day. (Been neck-deep in Logic since 3.2 back in...'97? Long before Apple snagged Emagic.) Loved it; really clever team of engineers.
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When we did the content for Equator2 there was lots of really painful Keymap Pro we had to do. Fuck knows why, coz everything we used it for could have been easily scripted. But by god that software suckkkkkkeeeeeddddddd hard beans.

Digital Igloo said:
A big reason why we've doubled down on modeling vs. capture isn't just because modeling is our wheelhouse.

Back in the keyboard workstation wars of the late 90s, multisampling became alllll the rage. If your synth didn't also let you sample other synths and meticulously map them to specific ranges of the keyboard, you were left out to dry. "What?! I can sample any synth ever made?!" was a common mantra, even though that technology had existed since the 80s. An Italian company called Redmatica even made software that would automate the process—it'd spit out a MIDI note to your synth, capture the resultant audio, trim the empty space, and repeat for the next velocity or note or range of notes until you had a fully sampled version of that synth's patch, ready for inclusion in Logic's EXS24 sampler. Apple acquired them in 2012 and integrated some of their IP.

Then in the mid-00s, hardware sampling took a back seat to analog modeling synths, followed by the resurgence of true analog synths. People wanted to turn knobs and hear changes. Moving those knobs was considered part of playing the instrument. They wanted evolving, interesting sounds that weren't static and which gave their productions a sense of dynamics and flow (especially with electronic music). They wanted to automate those changes in their DAW.

Now almost no one multisamples other synths, and the newer keyboard workstations have deprecated powerful multisampling for simpler clip-based one shot stuff. (People obviously still buy massive sample/sound libraries as plugins for the things that can't be easily synthesized from simpler waveforms, like acoustic drums, orchestral libraries, special effects, etc.)

Captures are awesome in that you have access to any amp or drive pedal ever made, provided you're wiling to slog through a list to find one you like. But captures suck in that they're not truly dynamic and you can't really manipulate them like the real thing, just like a sample or multisample of a Minimoog vs. a real Minimoog or even modeled Minimoog VST.

Is capture tech just a trend? No, it's likely here to stay in various forms. But those calling it the death knell for modeling really don't understand the technology nor the market.
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Yeah tangential to all of this, we've seen synths and oscillators and filters and all sorts, drastically improve in the land of digital.

20 years ago, a VST Moog ladder filter just didn't sound as good as the real thing. But today? God, excellent filters are all over the place. You can't move for high quality sounds these days, which just wasn't always true.

I do miss the days of sample CD's. Bizarre Guitar and all that.
 
Digital Igloo said:
Captures are awesome in that you have access to any amp or drive pedal ever made, provided you're wiling to slog through a list to find one you like.
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I get the gist of your point but isn't this in a way similar to going through a big list of amp models?

Digital Igloo said:
But captures suck in that they're not truly dynamic and you can't really manipulate them like the real thing, just like a sample or multisample of a Minimoog vs. a real Minimoog or even modeled Minimoog VST.

Is capture tech just a trend? No, it's likely here to stay in various forms. But those calling it the death knell for modeling really don't understand the technology nor the market.
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NAM supports parametric modeling though without needing an exorbitant amount of captures. Sure its too fiddly right now but I think the next big wave of Neural net type of capture tech (heck you are already starting to see plugins taking advantage of this) will start taking advantage of this.
 
I saw this list on the "other site" of what will be available at launch and what will come at some point after launch. Is there anything incorrect or missing from this list? Any timeframes of how long missing items are going to take to release? Looking at the Line 6 Stadium web site makes it sound like everything will be available at launch. I really wish they would be clear on their site what will be available and not available at launch.

Stadium will have at launch:
  1. Agoura amp models (around 16 models with about 42 channels)
  2. Focus view
  3. Hype control
  4. Showcase features
  5. Preset audition
  6. More headroom than regular Helix
  7. Includes everything from the 1st generation Helix
  8. Excellent touch screen
  9. Usability improvements including search, etc.
  10. More processing power
  11. Improved signal chain options
  12. Basic librarian software
Stadium won’t have at launch:
  1. Proxy (captures)
  2. New effects
  3. New synth sounds
  4. New and improved looper (only minor changes at launch)
  5. Helix Stadium editing software
 
ian_dissonance said:
No.
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Right, it's more like sorting through a list of amp models and then fiddling with all the settings available within the model and the pre or post options as well. In my experience there is little difference in how deep the rabbit holes can be between modeling or captures or how quickly one can navigate and avoid them. In either case, you can slog for hours, but if you do, that's your fault.
 
AZG said:
I saw this list on the "other site" of what will be available at launch and what will come at some point after launch. Is there anything incorrect or missing from this list? Any timeframes of how long missing items are going to take to release? Looking at the Line 6 Stadium web site makes it sound like everything will be available at launch. I really wish they would be clear on their site what will be available and not available at launch.

Stadium will have at launch:
  1. Agoura amp models (around 16 models with about 42 channels)
  2. Focus view
  3. Hype control
  4. Showcase features
  5. Preset audition
  6. More headroom than regular Helix
  7. Includes everything from the 1st generation Helix
  8. Excellent touch screen
  9. Usability improvements including search, etc.
  10. More processing power
  11. Improved signal chain options
  12. Basic librarian software
Stadium won’t have at launch:
  1. Proxy (captures)
  2. New effects
  3. New synth sounds
  4. New and improved looper (only minor changes at launch)
  5. Helix Stadium editing software
Click to expand...
One of these days I'll make a proper "Will Have at Launch" list including things we didn't have time to discuss at the keynote, but this is very close. 1st set #7 isn't quite accurate because Stadium XL won't have the following things from Helix Floor:
  • Older Hybrid cab engine
  • Pedal Edit Mode (We're talking about something different)
  • Preset Spillover (We're talking about something different)
  • Dedicated VDI and L6 LINK jacks (Expand D10 is coming next year)
  • CV Out jack (No one used it)
Showcase is impacting Stadium's release schedule the most, due to scope, complexity, and other reasons. But a fairly comprehensive editor could very well be ready by launch. And by launch, I mean 1.1, which will be available on day one. If you follow the concierge that appears when you first power on Stadium, it'll walk you through getting onto Wi-Fi, logging into your Line 6 account via QR code, and updating everything to 1.1, without even needing to see 1.0, which is missing a lot of stuff, even from the first set above. Everyone should consider 1.1 as 1.0.

Why force users to update on day one and not just add 1.1 at the factory? Because that would delay everyone getting their Helix Stadium by months, and by then there'd probably be a 1.2 ready; you'd want to update anyway. Personally, I'd prefer that, but our customers sure wouldn't.
 
To @AZG's point, it's probably a good idea to add "(Available early next year)" to the one otherwise innocuous bullet mention of Proxy.

But aside from that, the Stadium web site pretty accurately describes what you'd be getting out of the box on launch day.
 
I wonder how much the Stadium Express Pro will run. Could save some costs by removing any touch screen and having a killer phone app.

Similarly leave it at the bare bones initial 16 amp with legacy HX effects. That would be a neat product for sure and save on development costs and time which might speed the launch.
 
Digital Igloo said:
One of these days I'll make a proper "Will Have at Launch" list including things we didn't have time to discuss at the keynote, but this is very close. 1st set #7 isn't quite accurate because Stadium XL won't have the following things from Helix Floor:
  • Older Hybrid cab engine
  • Pedal Edit Mode (We're talking about something different)
  • Preset Spillover (We're talking about something different)
  • Dedicated VDI and L6 LINK jacks (Expand D10 is coming next year)
  • CV Out jack (No one used it)
Showcase is impacting Stadium's release schedule the most, due to scope, complexity, and other reasons. But a fairly comprehensive editor could very well be ready by launch. And by launch, I mean 1.1, which will be available on day one. If you follow the concierge that appears when you first power on Stadium, it'll walk you through getting onto Wi-Fi, logging into your Line 6 account via QR code, and updating everything to 1.1, without even needing to see 1.0, which is missing a lot of stuff, even from the first set above. Everyone should consider 1.1 as 1.0.

Why force users to update on day one and not just add 1.1 at the factory? Because that would delay everyone getting their Helix Stadium by months, and by then there'd probably be a 1.2 ready; you'd want to update anyway. Personally, I'd prefer that, but our customers sure wouldn't.
Click to expand...
Thanks to the larger team for all the hard work pushing through the home stretch. Let us know if they need a development keg delivered to keep morale up.

Drunk Drinking Beer GIF
 
KingsXJJ said:
I wonder how much the Stadium Express Pro will run. Could save some costs by removing any touch screen and having a killer phone app.

Similarly leave it at the bare bones initial 16 amp with legacy HX effects. That would be a neat product for sure and save on development costs and time which might speed the launch.
Click to expand...

I'm sure something like that is in the cards waaaaaaaay down the line. But that usually only appears after they squeezed a lot of the juice from the more upmarket form factors.
 
KingsXJJ said:
I wonder how much the Stadium Express Pro will run. Could save some costs by removing any touch screen and having a killer phone app.
Click to expand...
Historically, full-featured headless (UI-less) products have never sold well. ToneX One gets away with it because it's relatively simple. Trying to shoehorn something as deep as Stadium into a headless form factor would likely lose enough sales to offset whatever relatively minor cost savings it'd have. Touchscreens are expensive, but they're not that expensive.
Similarly leave it at the bare bones initial 16 amp with legacy HX effects. That would be a neat product for sure and save on development costs and time which might speed the launch.
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Number of models wouldn't impact cost in the slightest.
 
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