Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[timbuck3]

One thing I liked about the Stadium is that Line6 seems willing to filling all the gaps with competitors (and even bring some new stuff) instead of just saying "they have that but we have this", so if Fractal reverbs really are better than Helix's (can't really say), I could expect them to address that in the future.

Look at how fast Cliff from fractal addressed the convolution reverbs in the TMP that everybody was raving about didn’t he like immediately within a couple days or a week a new reverb that’s just as good if not better? I wonder as far as developing teams which team can work faster at actually implementing stuff quicker seems like fractal because it’s a smaller company and cliff is in charge. If he gets a bug up his butt, he can just go in and boom change it whereas maybe with line 6 they have to go through levels of hierarchy to getin OK to do something new or different or change something?

 

[timbuck3]

Remember, DI introduced this in the presentation as "here's what the next 10 years will be bringing us", or something to that effect. Stadium IS the flagship.

No doubt at this point for sure. I’ve decided if I can get guitar center to swing the 15% off to match musicians, friend, which they probably will they have in the past because they own musicians friend plus I can use those stupid credits that I have which as I said, I think it’s like 130+60+40 to put against it as well I think I’ll just go with the XL join the whole helix bandwagon thing
As I said before, I did buy the original helix I remember it was from music arts and I’m pretty sure it was like 1299 or something because of a 20% coupon at that time but I just really didn’t like the tones I was getting and within those 45 days I did return it however that’s been 10 years now so at this point, looking at the unit being a visual person the two things that were most important to me were the touchscreen, visually and easy access on the unit as well as a better looper than most units have which I think this will have
I’m hoping that the agora engine will improve the sounds even better than they have been in the last 10 years, which would make sense if it’s a new engine and I hope that the effects will continue to improve as well because I don’t think they’re quite up to fractal standards in some of the categories however, in certain categories, they are very good so it’s always gonna be a give-and-take right

 

[eggpl@nt]

I thought Zzounds was separate and AMS was part of the GC/MF group?

 

[mikah912]

Look at how fast Cliff from fractal addressed the convolution reverbs in the TMP that everybody was raving about didn’t he like immediately within a couple days or a week a new reverb that’s just as good if not better? I wonder as far as developing teams which team can work faster at actually implementing stuff quicker seems like fractal because it’s a smaller company and cliff is in charge. If he gets a bug up his butt, he can just go in and boom change it whereas maybe with line 6 they have to go through levels of hierarchy to getin OK to do something new or different or change something?

Cliff can whip up fantastic model sounds across a bazillion categories quicker than anybody else, but that'll likely always be the case. Line 6 isn't running that race anyway.

Fractal's speed in usability improvements isn't quite as whiplash-inducing. Lots of simple suggestions in their various wishlist forums have been gathering dust for years.

So their competitors are going to continue to thrive by innovating on that front in addition to their modeling engine development work.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

I thought Zzounds was separate and AMS was part of the GC/MF group?

Pretty sure they're all the same company, share the same warehouses.

 

[HotRats]

Helix has several different generations of reverb and delay in it already. It also launched with no Helix-exclusive reverbs.

I'm surprised that people are looking back on their development over the last 10 years and fretting about this.

You're right but people still believe that helix reverbs are not good enough, compared to fractal or other brands. It doesn't matter whether is true or not.

From a pure marketing point of view, I was expecting some stadium only reverbs from day one.

 

[Mongillo19]

I think I scared my SW ENGINEER away

Got back to me first thing this morning now nothing

 

[eggpl@nt]

Pretty sure they're all the same company, share the same warehouses.

We might both be wrong. Googling indicates that AMS/Zzounds is the same company but separate from GC/MF.

 

[OneEng]

You're right but people still believe that helix reverbs are not good enough, compared to fractal or other brands. It doesn't matter whether is true or not.

From a pure marketing point of view, I was expecting some stadium only reverbs from day one.

I thought the same thing. I could be wrong though.

 

[mikah912]

You're right but people still believe that helix reverbs are not good enough, compared to fractal or other brands. It doesn't matter whether is true or not.

From a pure marketing point of view, I was expecting some stadium only reverbs from day one.

Some people believe their reverbs aren't good enough, just as I'm sure some believe the same about their amp modeling or drive pedals or whatever.

They're continually improving on all of those fronts, but there are already a plethora of Stadium-only features from a "pure marketing point of view." The excitement they've generated clearly indicates that they hit a good midsection that overlaps between several different types of customers.

For the rest - including people who won't give it a chance until there are Stadium/Agoura-exclusive versions of (fill in the blank) - they know they have their work cut out for them. Clearly, they want that smoke.

 

[molul]

If he gets a bug up his butt, he can just go in and boom change it whereas maybe with line 6 they have to go through levels of hierarchy to getin OK to do something new or different or change something?

That'sv actually a double-edged sword.

It's true that sometimes you would prefer not going through the whole process to fix a bug and deploy an update, but I worked in a company where the boss would fix or add new features without following the company guidelines, and countless times it would result in new bugs reported by customers the next day, because he uploaded the update without letting the QA team do a full regression test, and the rest of the developers could only complain in private

 

[timbuck3]

Ok I did it… preordered. Stadium xl. 1827 after tx and 15% off and my my gear card discounts (230$)with 48 month financing

 

[Tito83]

I'd like to think I'm pretty good at predicting what the kids will whine about but "Line 6 won't make any new effects after Stadium" was not on that list.

Sheesh, @Tito83. It's like you'd prefer we sat on all the new effects we've made in the past few years (while developing Stadium) just so we could say "hey, here are a bunch of new effects for our new platform... and Helix/HX users get them too!" The end result would be exactly the same except Helix/HX users would have waited for no reason other than... marketing? Appeasing a couple incredibly short-sighted armchair PMs?

What I'm saying is that the effects I'm referring to directly, especially reverbs, I don't think are up to snuff with the current top tier modelers - and I'm not alone thinking this. If they sounded really great, I would hope for improvements, sure, but I would not be pushing for new ones. As it stands I think an upgrade for the time based effects, reverbs especially, is as deserved as the new amp modeling.

 

[burningyen]

We might both be wrong. Googling indicates that AMS/Zzounds is the same company but separate from GC/MF.

GC/MF does include Music & Arts and also swallowed up Woodwind & Brasswind.

 

[dk_ace]

Totally reasonable take.

I'm a happy FM9 owner too. It's an incredible piece of gear and a bargain, frankly, for all you get.

There's almost nothing I'm missing on it, soundwise. It meets almost all of my happy place needs (modded Marshall sounds galore, great reverbs and delays, plenty of horsepower, versatile footswitching, exposed parameters for performance pages, great factory presets with scenes galore). Aside from better bass presets and amp options, I'd be fine if they never added another model.

After a couple of years of ownership, however, I do still feel stuck in terms of being able to significantly edit presets on the fly with the on-unit interface - especially moving blocks. I've also come to appreciate cloud-based functionality that I've enjoyed on both Quad Cortex and Tonemaster Pro. Being tethered to the PC for management sucks. Finally, I've REALLY come to appreciate having favorites/device-level presets available to immediately call up when building patches from scratch or making said significant edits live/in the room.

Stadium XL looks to me like the "just right" form factor that combines the best of everything I've wanted over the past few years - especially once Proxy gets up and running early next year. I personally think the Line 6 "dynamic" reverbs are top shelf already, but I think they're aware that Fractal has become the measuring stick here, and they're going to keep taking cracks at it.

I’m in the same boat on not being any good at editing on the FM9. That hasn’t been much of an issue for me live yet, fortunately. But it could bite me eventually. That’s the one thing that still has me looking at helix. But presently I’m not willing to give up anything sonically, and the helix reverbs just fall short of my standards. It is what it is. I get that you are happy with them, but I am not.

If they fix that, I’ll have to take it for a spin.

D

 

[timbuck3]

Cliff can whip up fantastic model sounds across a bazillion categories quicker than anybody else, but that'll likely always be the case. Line 6 isn't running that race anyway.

Fractal's speed in usability improvements isn't quite as whiplash-inducing. Lots of simple suggestions in their various wishlist forums have been gathering dust for years.

So their competitors are going to continue to thrive by innovating on that front in addition to their modeling engine development work.

Well, I’m the first to admit from what I’ve seen a cliff on the boards. I don’t know him personally, but he has his own way of doing stuff and he doesn’t just jump on board of trends, which is a good thing, but it could also be a hindrance in the long run, but you know he’s kind of a one man show in a way so he has his own way of doing things his own timeline and he doesn’t really mess around. He just does it what he needs to be done. He doesn’t really have to answer to anybody. He knows his loyal user as well buy from him even if he doesn’t implement the latest slick display

 

[timbuck3]

I’m in the same boat on not being any good at editing on the FM9. That hasn’t been much of an issue for me live yet, fortunately. But it could bite me eventually. That’s the one thing that still has me looking at helix. But presently I’m not willing to give up anything sonically, and the helix reverbs just fall short of my standards. It is what it is. I get that you are happy with them, but I am not.

If they fix that, I’ll have to take it for a spin.

D

I mean, I think with the VP for fractal has made the interface a little bit more user-friendly from what I’ve read so he seems to be on that track to simplify the whole process of interacting with the models inside his unit so we’ll just have to see what his next step is

 

[dk_ace]

Yea just spitballing… go will match mf plus I have 240 in credits with gc so it would be 330+ 240 discount so it’s like a no brainer

It’s incredibly unlikely that there will be a better buying opportunity than that anytime soon. You might be able to resell it for exactly what you have in it if you use it past the return window and change your mind. If someone is thinking they want it, this is about as good an opportunity as you could hope for to save some money on it.

D

 

[sashimi]

Ok I did it… preordered. Stadium xl. 1827 after tx and 15% off and my my gear card discounts (230$)with 48 month financing

 

[paisleywookiee]

Ok I did it… preordered. Stadium xl. 1827 after tx and 15% off and my my gear card discounts (230$)with 48 month financing

Wait, what? Okay, once it's delivered, the "Never Bought Shit" label should definitely come off.