Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[HomespunEffects]

Why is everyone crapping on the Gameboy?

 

[Dez]

Why is everyone crapping on the Gameboy?

I fuckin loved the Game Boy though so HA

Idk, the Game Boy deserves a spot on the GOAT gaming platforms.

 

[Frodebro]

Okay, so I'm reading that very few people are running Fractals in Europe due to the pricing, yet I'm also reading here that Stadium will have a big impact on Fractal sales in Europe...

 

[Chocol8]

There is limited improvement available for simple single amp modeling but much more so when you expand that to full signal chains. More power will mean more things that can be done at once.

The other area the current generation of products could see major improvements in is speaker/cab emulation. Some of that may come down to the playback device, but IR’s through an FRFR do not sound like a modeler into a good power amp and real cab. There are a lot of reasons for it, but that’s something future development could address.

 

[Chocol8]

I get that guys in Europe would like to get Fractal gear cheaper, but why would a company selling out as fast as they can make stuff want to lower their prices?

If they want to sell a lot more product outside North America, they need to make more products and that can require some pretty expensive investment in capacity. Prices don’t always come down with increased volume, they often go up as well. Why would a small business make that investment just so they can sell for less when their current strategy is working for them?

 

[bucephalus]

Friggin' love a good cup of Earl Grey.

With a slice of lemon.

 

[laxu]

Okay, so I'm reading that very few people are running Fractals in Europe due to the pricing, yet I'm also reading here that Stadium will have a big impact on Fractal sales in Europe...

Both can be true.

On my used market here in Finland I've seen exactly one FM9 ever being sold. Either people like their FM9s, or there's not that many people willing to pay so much for it. Even the used one, despite being a fair price compared to the new, sat there for several months.

There's more FM3 Mk1 and Axe-Fx 3 Mk1/Mk2 units floating around. I expect many of these have been bought years ago when they were not only cheaper, but due to the currency value difference the EUR prices didn't seem as steep. Plus there was a lot less competition as Fractal sat on their throne for years.

 

[Lysander]

Improvements in emulation are off course welcome, but at this point I'm way more attracted by things like Showcase, Bluetooth editing, a great UI, a VST companion or great effects than by a 5.2% "realer" emulation. I'm actually 100% happy with HX emulation engine already.

+100. Of course i'm drooling in anticipation to try the new Agoura models but OG Helix sounds so good already that i wouldn't upgrade to a $1800 unit on sonic fidelity anymore.

 

[Frodebro]

I get that guys in Europe would like to get Fractal gear cheaper, but why would a company selling out as fast as they can make stuff want to lower their prices?

The tricky part here is that Fractal sells direct in North America, and through a distributor in Europe/Australia. If they were to follow the regular sales route in America and utilize the big retailers, the prices would undoubtably be at least 20-30% higher than they are now (in America). Line 6 has similar pricing on both continents because they use third party distributors in both places.

 

[Chocol8]

The tricky part here is that Fractal sells direct in North America, and through a distributor in Europe/Australia. If they were to follow the regular sales route in America and utilize the big retailers, the prices would undoubtably be at least 20-30% higher than they are now (in America). Line 6 has similar pricing on both continents because they use third party distributors in both places.

Yes, so to match their pricing overseas they would need to make more products and sell them (wholesale) for significantly less than they sell them direct. Sometimes that makes sense, sometimes it doesn’t.

 

[[Nathan]]

Seeing a lot of various helix units coming up for sale on FB marketplace, people are keen for the stadium

 

[Lysander]

Seeing a lot of various helix units coming up for sale on FB marketplace, people are keen for the stadium

Following a QC auction on the Swiss version of eBay, which is currently at... CHF 600, or USD $730. It ends on Friday.

 

[Frodebro]

Yes, so to match their pricing overseas they would need to make more products and sell them (wholesale) for significantly less than they sell them direct. Sometimes that makes sense, sometimes it doesn’t.

Exactly, and if Cliff were truly interested in ramping up production to those levels he would have already done so. That would involve a major expansion across the board (not just production, but also company personnel to deal with development, dealing with distribution, etc).

 

[molul]

Okay, so I'm reading that very few people are running Fractals in Europe due to the pricing, yet I'm also reading here that Stadium will have a big impact on Fractal sales in Europe...

Speaking only for myself, but I didn't specify that the impact will be in Europe only

Anyway, Stadium Floor is expected to cost 1800/2200€ vs Fractal FM9's 2300€, so indeed it can impact sales in Europe, although they'll be smaller than in America.

And the 1800€ price of the non-XL, together with the bigger amount of features and way better UI, can help it to sell better than what FM9 has been able to sell so far. It's 500€ less for presumable much more value.

 

[Frodebro]

Speaking only for myself, but I didn't specify that the impact will be in Europe only

Anyway, Stadium Floor is expected to cost 1800/2200€ vs Fractal FM9's 2300€, so indeed it can impact sales in Europe, although they'll be smaller than in America.

And the 1800€ price of the non-XL, together with the bigger amount of features and way better UI, can help it to sell better than what FM9 has been able to sell so far. It's 500€ less for presumable much more value.

Honestly, I don't think there will be a huge impact on FM9 sales in America, either. The two companies are primarily focused on different segments of the market. Kinda like Friedman versus Marshall.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I had the first axe-fx. It was damn good. People said ALL the things they are saying now about how it’s already there, more power won’t matter, can’t improve it much more, etc. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

It's not about things possibly making a difference. But as has been said, we're in the land of diminishing returns in many aspects already. Which was pretty different some years back.

 

[Dez]

Just some thoughts as I revisit Helix Native (as a sanity check if I really want the Stadium).

The newer models are quite good and imo mostly comparable to fractal counterparts. I do find the fractal models still have a weight or depth to them that still just makes it more fun to play.

Some amps like the MKIV are just so different. To me, the Helix Mark IV sounds bad and nothing like the IV on the FAS or how I recall my mark IV sounding. But then again, the helix ENGL Fireball model is absolutely killer. It just seems very hit or miss.

The reverbs in fractal land are noticably better along with the dynacabs. I haven't really jived with the cabs in Helix and often just opt for an IR.

Again, this is on Native so you have to consider input gain.

All in all, I will need to do some more digging. I really hope they release Augora clips before launch or at least an A/B from some YTers. Of course there is always the return window but alas.

I went back and played with Native too, now that I’m in plugin land for a bit I may as well start getting used to Line 6 shit that’ll be in the stadium. That ENGL amp is I haven’t played with Helix shit for a long while!

 

[[Nathan]]

I had the first axe-fx. It was damn good. People said ALL the things they are saying now about how it’s already there, more power won’t matter, can’t improve it much more, etc. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

The improvements he makes are small and incremental, but cumulative. Give him new hardware and three years of improvements and he’ll beat the current gen in a noticeable way. Same thing for team Helix.

D

100% agree. It’s been proven again and again with dozens and dozens of firmwares. The fact that people can’t envision Cliff delivering meaningful upgrades through updated horsepower in the axe4 paired with an inevitable upgrade of Cygnus is kind of crazy. He’s been doing it month on month since 2018 with the axe3 already.

 

[Frodebro]

It's not about things possibly making a difference. But as has been said, we're in the land of diminishing returns in many aspects already. Which was pretty different some years back.

I agree that we're pretty much at the point where we can finally put the "it don't sound like my toob amp!" argument to bed, and have moved on to all the other things that digital brings to the table-signal routing, effects, stuff like that.

 

[[Nathan]]

I went back and played with Native too, now that I’m in plugin land for a bit I may as well start getting used to Line 6 shit that’ll be in the stadium. That ENGL amp is I haven’t played with Helix shit for a long while!

The Fireball is awesome and the 5150iii red is