Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[Richard_G]

Don't you mean the "Stompium" ...... you heard it here first :)

In my humble opinion «Stompium» sounds like a joke on a gear forum.

 

[yek]

The “game boy” thing is nothing to serious really… but it was still unnecessary imho.

The Gameboy comparison was about processing power.

 

[Sascha Franck]

he Gameboy comparison was about processing power.

Wondering what that will be used for. I could imagine several things.

 

[GTR37]

AxeFX plugin, but one that I can play Crash Bandicoot and THPS on

DUDE Bandicoot was such a wicked game
I feel NDSP missed an opportunity to go Neo Cortex

 

[GTR37]

Seriously, if the current Fractal lineup has any issues, it is NOT lack of horsepower.

Seriously, if the current Fractal lineup has any issues, it is NOT lack of horsepower.

Looks like Chris in Vail Colorado just fired up his new AX4

 

[Dez]

The Gameboy comparison was about processing power.

What makes you say that? I saw the post too

 

[molul]

Stating that the next gen Fractal thing will make everything look like a Game Boy seems like a good way to keep doubtful Fractal users to jump to Helix Stadium.

I mean, there's no release date for that, but if you're a Fractal die-hard user, and you know something potentially mind-blowing is on the works, you might probably wait a bit before putting your money on another company device.

At least that's what would happen to me if it had happened the other way around. If Fractal had announced a device like Stadium and Eric then said that game boy thing, I would totally wait to see what it is before spending 1800-2200.

 

[GTR37]

Stating that the next gen Fractal thing will make everything look like a Game Boy seems like a good way to keep doubtful Fractal users to jump to Helix Stadium.

I mean, there's no release date for that, but if you're a Fractal die-hard user, and you know something potentially mind-blowing is on the works, you might probably wait a bit before putting your money on another company device.

At least that's what would happen to me if it had happened the other way around. If Fractal had announced a device like Stadium and Eric then said that game boy thing, I would totally wait to see what it is before spending 1800-2200.

I think that’s a tactic of all manufacturers, I am still not convinced Kemper launching a marketing campaign for MK2 with virtually no changes to the hardware and a new profiling algorithm that is months out was not a preemptive strike against The imminent Helix stadium announcement they knew about

 

[namathan_zirwir]

The Gameboy comparison was about processing power.

Of course. It sure wouldn’t be any of their displays

 

[yek]

What makes you say that? I saw the post too

Comprehensive reading. "It" refers to the topic of the previous sentence = "super-computing power".

 

[molul]

I think that’s a tactic of all manufacturers, I am still not convinced Kemper launching a marketing campaign for MK2 with virtually no changes to the hardware and a new profiling algorithm that is months out was not a preemptive strike against The imminent Helix stadium announcement they knew about

Yet the hype they generated didn't last long. Only a week after, the Kemper mk2 did look like a Game Boy compared to what was shown in the Stadium keynote.

Even an ex-bandmate, with whom I've had many "Kemper vs Helix" arguments during years (he has a Kemper Stage and I have a Helix LT), said he was disappointed with the mk2 the day they announced it ("it's not much more than my Stage, but now my Stage will sell quite worse in the used market!"), even more after and seeing the Stadium.

It will take years for Kemper to reach the Stadium features and usability, if they ever do it (and they should, as you can't keep selling an outdated device for too long). The only way they can keep selling this mk2 is that their new profiling is NOTABLY better than Agoura and Proxy tones. And I wouldn't put my money on it.

 

[Chocol8]

It will take years for Kemper to reach the Stadium features and usability, if they ever do it (and they should, as you can't keep selling an outdated device for too long).

They should probably drop out of the guitar market. They had a good run but their competitive advantage has completely evaporated, and catching back up now will cost them too much for what scraps are left in a very competitive market with NAM, Tonex and the Chinese brands at the low end, and Line 6 and Fractal eating their lunch at the higher end.

 

[molul]

They should probably drop out of the guitar market. They had a good run but their competitive advantage has completely evaporated, and catching back up now will cost them too much for what scraps are left in a very competitive market with NAM, Tonex and the Chinese brands at the low end, and Line 6 and Fractal eating their lunch at the higher end.

I didn't want to sound cruel, but I certainly feel this might be the beginning of the end for them, unless they make an astronishing move in the next 2 years. But I would find more likely that they sell their technology to someone like Roland or Behringturd.

 

[GTR37]

I didn't want to sound cruel, but I certainly feel this might be the beginning of the end for them, unless they make an astronishing move in the next 2 years. But I would find more likely that they sell their technology to someone like Roland or Behringturd.

For NDSP too I am afraid
You have too look at what they had that was unique when they launched

1.Touchscreen
2.Amp modelers and captures
3.Better capture tech than Kemper or anything available at that time

Those were their 3 selling points
Since then even lower level modellers have implanted touch screen ( Hotone)
Not even talking Helix level
Nam / ToneX and others have bettered their capture tech
PCOM which might have been their other cool feature has turned into pretty much a shitshow and crippled their development where maybe they could have got out 3 or 4 really good updates to stay in the positive light

Just for those keeping score Nolly X and Parralaxe X launched last July and the hope was 6 months for a pair of plug ins , they are literally about 1 month away from a year of the 2 above

 

[molul]

For NDSP too I am afraid

Yep, them too. I was reading this, that was posted in the QC thread:

https://unity.neuraldsp.com/t/did-plugin-compatibility-kill-qc-looking-at-you-helix-stadium/18620/

 

[[Nathan]]

Cliff only had one note: Helix looks like a fine product, but it'll soon look like a Game Boy.


He may very well be right. Excited to see what Fractal's got cookin'. (I want an Axe FX plugin!)

Imagine someone at modelling company one not getting butthurt at words from modelling company two!

Seeing these lighthearted comments from Eric and Cliff instantly makes me respect them (more than I did already). Others are so fragile that if you dare say anything critical you’ll get banned or gaslit from the lemmings.

I guess you don’t have to feel insecure about your product when it’s a helix or a fractal, that probably helps

(Also, where’s the axefx plugin )

 

[[Nathan]]

Seriously, if the current Fractal lineup has any issues, it is NOT lack of horsepower.

I see this rhetoric a lot but it’s short sighted. Maybe the better way to frame it is “with the current Cygnus modelling there’s plenty of power”.

If there’s a whole new updated engine like the switch from ares to Cygnus then something like that has scope to chew a lot more processing and produce better results. I imagine that would be the driving factor for an axefxIV

 

[Lysander]

I see this rhetoric a lot but it’s short sighted. Maybe the better way to frame it is “with the current Cygnus modelling there’s plenty of power”.

We'll see, but i reckon these devices are already at the tail end of the diminishing returns curve: you can throw 10x the compute power at modelling, but you won't get the generational gains we were used to so far. Fractal, in particular, already sounds pretty stellar IMHO.

There's also the fact that modern mainstream DSPs are already (very) overpowered for pure audio applications.

 

[Mongillo19]

We'll see, but i reckon these devices are already at the tail end of the diminishing returns curve: you can throw 10x the compute power at modelling, but you won't get the generational gains we were used to so far. Fractal, in particular, already sounds pretty stellar IMHO.

There's also the fact that modern mainstream DSPs are already massively overpowered for pure audio applications.

Yeah I will say though Eric mentioned how with more DSP you can capture more of the nuances of an amp.

I agree there is probably diminishing returns, but imo there is quite the difference between OG Helix amps and the more recent ones which I think were attributed to more efficient use of DSP or being able to model more of the minute parts of the circuit.

UI is such low hanging fruit for fractal but I could see them not taking full advantage of it. But I'd be all about seeing how they think they can push the modeling algorithms

 

[[Nathan]]

We'll see, but i reckon these devices are already at the tail end of the diminishing returns curve: you can throw 10x the compute power at modelling, but you won't get the generational gains we were used to so far. Fractal, in particular, already sounds pretty stellar IMHO.

There's also the fact that modern mainstream DSPs are already (very) overpowered for pure audio applications.

Fair points but even Cliff mentioned gameboy in the context of computational power.

I dunno we saw the same rhetoric from axe2 to axe3. I had an axe2 since launch and was in the fence about the 3. When I finally got an fm3 and played it I was like… this is not a small change this is huge.

If anyone can make gains like that happen again I believe it’s fractal, dudes undeniable.