Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[MirrorProfiles]

Capturing is a feature that people are coming to expect in 2025. I’m excited for Line 6’s take on what that experience should be. Even if DI doesn’t see it as his favoured approach, they have the benefit of standing back and watching how others have done it first before making their move.

Pretty certain the user experience will be beyond what we’ve seen from Kemper, NDSP, Headrush, Valeton etc.

The more existing formats it supports the better - if someone can easily recreate a rig that currently requires using 3 pedals into one that can do way more, including an entire band’s mixing and routing, then what’s the loss?

Line 6 has cloud training available, even if it’s as inefficient as making a proxy model of a kemper/tonex/QC file, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible. If it is a fork of NAM itself, perhaps that’ll be even easier to translate to Proxy’s own format (although not all NAM models use the same internal settings so some translation may be required).

 

[Mooselake]

This guy comes across as an idiot.

So, future Stadium users,who haven't had the opportunity to try out the new Agoura models yet, aren't saying things in response to having tried Agoura models before getting to try them out like Fractal and QC users did after trying out past new models. I wonder why that is.

 

[FuzzyAce]

The corniness aside, I actually agree with his overall premise. I do think modeled tones have reached a sort of plateau and the interest lies more in features/processes, routing capabilities, and user interface. Many are very content with the tones they are currently getting from Fractal or HX, or any number of other modelers. But, the Stadium hasn't been released yet either, so maybe the Agoura amps will be so much "better" that you can actually hear and feel it? Do they even need to be better for some users? The efx side of things, especially verbs and delays, seems to be where HX could make significant gains in the tonal department, though. Time will tell.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Watched the whole video and didn't get triggered crew, checking in.

 

[Lysander]

But, the Stadium hasn't been released yet either, so maybe the Agoura amps will be so much "better" that you can actually hear and feel it? Do they even need to be better for some users?

You know, that's the kind of question anyone outside YouTube would ask themselves before claiming no one cares about something.

 

[FuzzyAce]

You know, that's the kind of question anyone outside YouTube would ask themselves before claiming no one cares about something.

Click bait.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Watched the whole video and didn't get triggered crew, checking in.

I find your lack of outrage disturbing @JiveTurkey

 

[Sascha Franck]

The corniness aside, I actually agree with his overall premise.

Maybe I might as well (as said, didn't watch, no plans to do so, either). And yet, the premise is stupid clickbaiting. If you look through any Stadium thread, the question is just silly, simply because pretty much everyone seems to care about the Agoura amp models. Whether it's all people and how much they care can certainly be debated, but releasing a video with such a title is just embarrassing.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Just ignore the channel. Tis a silly place.

 

[Chocol8]

I guess we're quite far away from that. Or rather, so far it seems only static settings cane be captured. And would you really want, say, a chorus without control over its speed or depth? I wouldn't.
Right now, we're at the beginning of amp/dirt things being captured parametrically, and even that seems to be no easy task. FX might take quite some more time for that to happen. And a lot more "user input" would be required as well, because you'd actually have to create captures of all kinda different settings.
And I also doubt that this would save you too much CPU juice as the playback engine doing kinda realtime intermodulation between parameters would have to do quite some work.

You are really missing the benefit of what exists today. You can’t capture everything, but if you can capture amp, dirt pedals, EQ, and maybe some other things, you can simplify the signal chain to do more with time based effects or whatever can’t or you don’t want to be part of the capture.

Capturing everything doesn’t necessarily make sense or need to.

 

[Sascha Franck]

You are really missing the benefit of what exists today.

Nah. As you wrote "FX", I thought you were talking about "real" effects. For me, anything dirt/comp/EQ is part of the basic sound rather than an effect, which, for me, would basically be modulations, delays and reverbs.

 

[ian_dissonance]

That guys’ channel sucks so much. Didn’t he sell some profiles of digital amps a few years back without telling anyone?

 

[paisleywookiee]

Nah. As you wrote "FX", I thought you were talking about "real" effects. For me, anything dirt/comp/EQ is part of the basic sound rather than an effect, which, for me, would basically be modulations, delays and reverbs.

semantics!! But since our Lord and Tone Savior Clifford put a dirt option IN THE AMP block, I tend to agree.

 

[Lysander]

That guys’ channel sucks so much. Didn’t he sell some profiles of digital amps a few years back without telling anyone?

I still hold that most "boutique" profile sellers are just plugging their AxeFXs into Kempers.

 

[mikah912]

I still hold that most "boutique" profile sellers are just plugging their AxeFXs into Kempers.

Could very well be. I trust @Deadpan and @JerEvil because I know they have legit amp/cab collections and have put in the work. Same for @GuitarJon and Amalgam Audio. Aside from grabbing whatever @2112 will conjure up when he does his inevitable Stadium vids....I don't see me needing amp tones beyond what's in their respective collections.

 

[Sascha Franck]

semantics!!

Nah, not really. For me there's really two categories: Base sound and effects. Base sound is everthing that just creates, well, the basic tone whereas effects kinda "sit on top". Sure, in some cases that might be a too easy distinction, but it's still making sense. Listeners likely won't be able whether your tone has an amp and a dirt box in it, but they will be able to tell there's some phaser on top.

 

[mbenigni]

RE: Footswitching. It's definitely my particular use cases, but I find the Helix infinitely more flexible than the Axe3. Because I do a lot with midi switching of the amp and outboard pedals and the occasional synth and things like that, which the Axe3 is just remarkably under-developed for, quite honestly.

That's funny, because this whole time I just assumed the FAS stuff was massively overpowered in this regard... to such an extent that I was simply incapable of understanding it.

 

[Fireproof]

Nah, not really. For me there's really two categories: Base sound and effects. Base sound is everthing that just creates, well, the basic tone whereas effects kinda "sit on top". Sure, in some cases that might be a too easy distinction, but it's still making sense. Listeners likely won't be able whether your tone has an amp and a dirt box in it, but they will be able to tell there's some phaser on top.

I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense why you think of them like that. BUT>…

And maybe I’ve been living under a rock, but you are the only one I’ve heard characterize them that way.

And in every single modeler on the planet - when you want to add a Distortion Pedal - you either look in the “Amps” list, the “Cabs” list, or the “Effects” list. And where is it? Oh yeah - effects.

If you want your dirt pedal or compressor to “identify” as your base tone, that’s fine. But don’t expect everyone else in the industry to do it.

 

[laxu]

That's funny, because this whole time I just assumed the FAS stuff was massively overpowered in this regard... to such an extent that I was simply incapable of understanding it.

It's specifically MIDI sending features that aren't that well developed on it.

Footswitching internal functionality is very programmable.

 

[Digital Igloo]

A big reason why we've doubled down on modeling vs. capture isn't just because modeling is our wheelhouse.

Back in the keyboard workstation wars of the late 90s, multisampling became alllll the rage. If your synth didn't also let you sample other synths and meticulously map them to specific ranges of the keyboard, you were left out to dry. "What?! I can sample any synth ever made?!" was a common mantra, even though that technology had existed since the 80s. An Italian company called Redmatica even made software that would automate the process—it'd spit out a MIDI note to your synth, capture the resultant audio, trim the empty space, and repeat for the next velocity or note or range of notes until you had a fully sampled version of that synth's patch, ready for inclusion in Logic's EXS24 sampler. Apple acquired them in 2012 and integrated some of their IP.

Then in the mid-00s, hardware sampling took a back seat to analog modeling synths, followed by the resurgence of true analog synths. People wanted to turn knobs and hear changes. Moving those knobs was considered part of playing the instrument. They wanted evolving, interesting sounds that weren't static and which gave their productions a sense of dynamics and flow (especially with electronic music). They wanted to automate those changes in their DAW.

Now almost no one multisamples other synths, and the newer keyboard workstations have deprecated powerful multisampling for simpler clip-based one shot stuff. (People obviously still buy massive sample/sound libraries as plugins for the things that can't be easily synthesized from simpler waveforms, like acoustic drums, orchestral libraries, special effects, etc.)

Captures are awesome in that you have access to any amp or drive pedal ever made, provided you're wiling to slog through a list to find one you like. But captures suck in that they're not truly dynamic and you can't really manipulate them like the real thing, just like a sample or multisample of a Minimoog vs. a real Minimoog or even modeled Minimoog VST.

Is capture tech just a trend? No, it's likely here to stay in various forms. But those calling it the death knell for modeling really don't understand the technology nor the market.