Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[StarF666]

There are two Stomp modes—A and B, each one with 10 assignable switches. And if you set Control A, B, C, and D to be footswitch ins, you get a total of 24 stomps per preset: 10+10+4. Snapshots are currently still 8 per preset.

I'd really love to change switch assignments with snapshots but that might be to advanced for most users. Nonetheless useful if you want to stay on one "page". And while we're at it: I'd love to see the encoders assignable to parameters of individual blocks (in some kind of "play view"). So I could have my reverb mix, delay mix and feedback, gain and volume and whatnot always accessible without selecting the corresponding block first (where you might have to page through parameters).

 

[James Freeman]

As one descendent of British colonists once said: "Whether you think you cun or think you cunt, you're right.”

 

[James Freeman]

His name was Henry, he single handedly killed the horse indutry and cleaned a lot of shit from the shoe soles hence encoders of innocent guitarists.
Pretty much exactly what Line 6 are going to do to the amp modeling industry.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'd really love to change switch assignments with snapshots but that might be to advanced for most users. Nonetheless useful if you want to stay on one "page". And while we're at it: I'd love to see the encoders assignable to parameters of individual blocks (in some kind of "play view"). So I could have my reverb mix, delay mix and feedback, gain and volume and whatnot always accessible without selecting the corresponding block first (where you might have to page through parameters).

All of this highly seconded!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Has it been said whether users will require a HW unit to make models for the platform?

Even if I had the HW, I don’t think I’d fancy having to rejig my studio in order to make things, especially if I don’t intend to use them on HW (assuming plugin(s) are coming). If the talk is to model things beyond just guitar amps I think it would also be cool to have the flexibility to make models on your own gear.

 

[molul]

Has it been said whether users will require a HW unit to make models for the platform?

Even if I had the HW, I don’t think I’d fancy having to rejig my studio in order to make things, especially if I don’t intend to use them on HW (assuming plugin(s) are coming). If the talk is to model things beyond just guitar amps I think it would also be cool to have the flexibility to make models on your own gear.

I guess you'll need the HW to gather the capture data and format it appropriately before sending it to the cloud server for further processing.

 

[[Nathan]]

I guess you'll need the HW to gather the capture data and format it appropriately before sending it to the cloud server for further processing.

Can theoretically be done via software ala tonocracy, hence the question I guess

 

[GTR37]

100 pages now and still no audio samples of the new modeling.

I personally would not if I was them either at this point if they are not ready
Tons of posts on YouTube saying let’s hear it and complaining but Line6 should not be forced into releasing a bunch of less than stellar clips to satisfy people IMO
The first impressions of Agoura are going to be super important you want to put out the best representations you can

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I personally would not if I was them either at this point if they are not ready
Tons of posts on YouTube saying let’s hear it and complaining but Line6 should not be forced into releasing a bunch of less than stellar clips to satisfy people IMO
The first impressions of Agoura are going to be super important you want to put out the best representations you can

Definitely understandable why they’d want to be cautious with it, but demonstrating absolutely ripping tones should be pretty easy for them to do. They have access to some of the best guitarists ever to have lived, a decent studio, the most ideal conditions imaginable.

I think it’s just a case of them planning the right approach - picking the right examples and framing them in the most appropriate contexts. I don’t think they need to be TOO cautious about it, I think a bit of bravery and confidence goes a hell of a long way.

The opposite is something like what Nembrini do, a half assed soundcloud playlist of largely dreadful demos. I’m not surprised at the response of them posting AxeFX preset demos - something that has been dialled in by someone else is never going to sound quite right when played by someone else. Demos should show the absolute best of what’s possible, not just “here’s me playing a random ass preset that I didn’t even make, and not sure I even like”.

I think if I made a playlist playing through stock presets on any device they’d sound underwhelming. It would be like trying to mix a song using only presets made by someone else

 

[molul]

Can theoretically be done via software ala tonocracy, hence the question I guess

I see. Still, not sure if it would be a good or bad decision. It makes sense that if you want to use the Proxy system, you "gain" access by purchasing a Stadium device. Makes more sense if you plan to sell your captures on your own store, if that's allowed by Line6.

Do Kemper or NDSP allow capturing outside their devices?

 

[Chocol8]

Has it been said whether users will require a HW unit to make models for the platform?

Even if I had the HW, I don’t think I’d fancy having to rejig my studio in order to make things, especially if I don’t intend to use them on HW (assuming plugin(s) are coming). If the talk is to model things beyond just guitar amps I think it would also be cool to have the flexibility to make models on your own gear.

While they could allow collecting capture data on third party hardware like NAM and Tonex do, I think this would be a big mistake for them.

The Kemper/QC method of doing the capture on controlled hardware allows for some significant benefits in the consistency of the captures, plus simplifies the software, documentation and support. In addition, hardware only capture may help sell hardware.

From the perspective of Line 6, there is no way I would allow non-hardware capturing with Proxy, and even as a customer, I would prefer they not allow it in order to increase the average quality of third party captures and avoid the mess of different users setting levels their own way.

 

[GTR37]

Definitely understandable why they’d want to be cautious with it, but demonstrating absolutely ripping tones should be pretty easy for them to do. They have access to some of the best guitarists ever to have lived, a decent studio, the most ideal conditions imaginable.

I think it’s just a case of them planning the right approach - picking the right examples and framing them in the most appropriate contexts. I don’t think they need to be TOO cautious about it, I think a bit of bravery and confidence goes a hell of a long way.

The opposite is something like what Nembrini do, a half assed soundcloud playlist of largely dreadful demos. I’m not surprised at the response of them posting AxeFX preset demos - something that has been dialled in by someone else is never going to sound quite right when played by someone else. Demos should show the absolute best of what’s possible, not just “here’s me playing a random ass preset that I didn’t even make, and not sure I even like”.

I think if I made a playlist playing through stock presets on any device they’d sound underwhelming. It would be like trying to mix a song using only presets made by someone else

While I do not like the Nembrini ones I actually do prefer that format as opposed to in a mix or HW or Henning clips
If you have a list you can have a bit more variety like maybe those 4 corners in focus view
A crunch , an 80s , modern etc etc
I like the demo set up like a metallurgy you clip on image of an an you get 3 or 4 short
Clips not in a mix

 

[MirrorProfiles]

While they could allow collecting capture data on third party hardware like NAM and Tonex do, I think this would be a big mistake for them.

The Kemper/QC method of doing the capture on controlled hardware allows for some significant benefits in the consistency of the captures, plus simplifies the software, documentation and support. In addition, hardware only capture may help sell hardware.

From the perspective of Line 6, there is no way I would allow non-hardware capturing with Proxy, and even as a customer, I would prefer they not allow it in order to increase the average quality of third party captures and avoid the mess of different users setting levels their own way.

I get this side of things, but also think of it this way.

People who make crappy captures will do so no matter what method they use. People who make decent stuff that works well on a variety of playback environments, and that is captured in an ideal studio with accurate monitoring will probably make killer stuff no matter what they’re using.

Given that people who actually make models are significantly in the minority vs people that use them, it probably benefits L6 more to have as many people contributing models to their library. A stronger library is probably a bigger sales pull for them, than whatever extra money they’d make by selling a handful more HW units to users who’d make captures.

If L6 were to make their capturing platform totally free, it would probably bring in a TON of NAM and ToneX users who are waiting for a “goldilocks” piece of HW that doesn’t exist yet. All they need to do is release their version of NAM, and a Stomp and the market is theirs. ToneX benefitted massively from a low barrier of entry, and I think with every new proprietary capturing format that gets released, bringing new users in gets harder and harder. Ask Tonocracy or STL how active their capture platforms are these days.

 

[laxu]

Definitely understandable why they’d want to be cautious with it, but demonstrating absolutely ripping tones should be pretty easy for them to do. They have access to some of the best guitarists ever to have lived, a decent studio, the most ideal conditions imaginable.

I think it’s just a case of them planning the right approach - picking the right examples and framing them in the most appropriate contexts. I don’t think they need to be TOO cautious about it, I think a bit of bravery and confidence goes a hell of a long way.

The opposite is something like what Nembrini do, a half assed soundcloud playlist of largely dreadful demos. I’m not surprised at the response of them posting AxeFX preset demos - something that has been dialled in by someone else is never going to sound quite right when played by someone else. Demos should show the absolute best of what’s possible, not just “here’s me playing a random ass preset that I didn’t even make, and not sure I even like”.

I think if I made a playlist playing through stock presets on any device they’d sound underwhelming. It would be like trying to mix a song using only presets made by someone else

I've seen people saying things like "You can't know what the gear actually sounds like because Pete Thorn makes everything sound good". You can't win no matter what. "Too good" is apparently a thing for them.

To me it's "If this great player got this great tone out of it, so can I." Hearing the best possible outcome to showcase the true capabilities. With that gear, the only thing holding me back is my knowledge of how to use it and my playing chops. Both which you can improve for no additional cost but time.

There's a group of people who won't trust anything that isn't some person in cargo shorts and flipflops playing in a low quality video/audio shot entirely with a smartphone. I can bet that you could take that Fractal stock preset sound, and if you just make it look like the person is playing through <insert fancy boutique amp>, then people would go "Wow, that sounds so good man!" because they are so heavily biased to what they see.

When the Stadium comes out, I can bet e.g Andertons will go through a pile of stock presets, then show how to dial in one themselves. Presets have been an achilles heel for a lot of modelers, so I hope Line6 makes some great ones out of the box.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

While I do not like the Nembrini ones I actually do prefer that format as opposed to in a mix or HW or Henning clips
If you have a list you can have a bit more variety like maybe those 4 corners in focus view
A crunch , an 80s , modern etc etc
I like the demo set up like a metallurgy you clip on image of an an you get 3 or 4 short
Clips not in a mix

HW and Henning wasn’t really what I had in mind. I was thinking more like Zach Wish, Butch Walker, Blake Mansfield, Tim Pierce etc.

Maybe invite a few big name producers to an LA studio and do some A/B test with real amps with some famous guitarists rigs. I think we all roughly know what the amp tones will be like, but demonstrating how well they hold up in a demanding environment with minimal fuss would be a strong draw IMO.

 

[molul]

Maybe invite a few big name producers to an LA studio and do some A/B test with real amps with some famous guitarists rigs. I think we all roughly know what the amp tones will be like, but demonstrating how well they hold up in a demanding environment with minimal fuss would be a strong draw IMO.

That would be quite a way to make an impression. I think people like Rick Beato A/B testing and being amazed would boost sales.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

There's a group of people who won't trust anything that isn't some person in cargo shorts and flipflops playing in a low quality video/audio shot entirely with a smartphone.

I enjoyed this.

I think it’s not just about showing that it sounds good (which is easy for basically anything), it’s about showing HOW good it is (less straightforward).

Stock presets suck ass. We need to move more towards presets being more like templates that make configuring routing quick and easy. The current process on most HW units of having to start from a preset and then copy that to a new preset should be kept in the past. On a good modeller, it would be so trivially easy to make your own presets, or search and download something very specific that the unit shouldn’t need hundreds of random ass nonsense pre-loaded.

 

[Chocol8]

Why? They already have a significant back order and the product is months away from launch. I don’t think they need to do anything to boost sales yet, and any clips they do post will get criticized by the ignorant online mob. I see more downside than upside.

 

[HomespunEffects]

… Presets have been an achilles heel for a lot of modelers, so I hope Line6 makes some great ones out of the box.

I think they get excited to show what this new thing can do and the preset designers throw everything at it. It becomes a caricature. I mean Devin Townsend would be like “I can use this” but us regular mortal people want what we would get by plugging a guitar into the amp with no other effects or just a touch of reverb (not the caverns of Valhalla). Keep them simple.

Bah, just let me do it.

PS if you make a preset called “The Caverns of Valhalla” I want recognition.

 

[laxu]

I enjoyed this.

I think it’s not just about showing that it sounds good (which is easy for basically anything), it’s about showing HOW good it is (less straightforward).

Stock presets suck ass. We need to move more towards presets being more like templates that make configuring routing quick and easy. The current process on most HW units of having to start from a preset and then copy that to a new preset should be kept in the past. On a good modeller, it would be so trivially easy to make your own presets, or search and download something very specific that the unit shouldn’t need hundreds of random ass nonsense pre-loaded.

You and me would be fine with this, but you have to remember there's a bunch of people who want to do preferably zero work.

They want to buy a modeler, and they want it to sound like the heavens from the first chord. These are the folks who are buying paid presets, or their "I've gigged this for 3 years" preset is literally a marginally tweaked factory preset because that worked well enough when they first found it.

Line6 seems to want e.g Focus view to be a bit catered towards this group to get them to engage with the individual fx models more, even if it's at a "slide a finger towards corners of the screen" level.