Leon's New Video Comparing 2203 In Different Modelers

[Foxmeister]

Makin myself a big ol bedtime decaf mocha for this

Your life is the epitome of rock & roll!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

@2112

I was imagining in my head how I expected the TMP was going to sound, no surprises there. QC’s scoop and bottom seems to be load box related to me. Helix in this test was a good example of the inherent fizz that some (especially older) models have. The Rectifier, Mark IV, Uberschall all have it too but I think their newer models like the BE100 and 2203 exhibit less of that.

Would LOVE to see the Rectifier next, that’s quite an unforgiving amp (worth doing an amp DI with a mesa cab for that one just to remove the influence of the load box).

HMU if you would like some reamps of a Bogner Uberschall or BE100 to compare with too. I’m actually curious how close the Axe FX can match the Uber as theirs is based on the really early version and i’ve struggled to get it as close to my amp as other platforms (Helix’s model is from a unit a couple of serial numbers away from my amp, STL and QC seem close too). BE100 will be interesting too as in my experience most platforms seem to nail that easily. TMP has sounded odd in clips but i’m wondering if it’s user error or the model itself

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Another comparison. Deluxe Reverb, this time with an amp for reference.

Here are my listening notes prior to the reveal, with the devices noted at the end after the reveal. I guess my ears still work!

Spoiler: Listening notes with reveals notated at end

A - open high end, balanced, sounds good <AMP>

B - maybe a bit too mid-focused but sounds good <AXE-FX>

C - brightest/harshest treble articulation so far. A bit too much, maybe could be dialed out <HELIX>

D - treble detail weird, hashy <QUAD CORTEX>

E - also a little lacking in treble detail but better than D <TMP W/ IR ON DEVICE, EXTREME SETTINGS>

F - sounds a bit like A in freq response, good <AMP>

G - dark, muddy treble <TMP W/ IR LOADED EXTERNALLY>

H - REALLY stuffy and lacking in treble detail. Bad. Bad. Bad. <TMP WITH AMP SETTINGS>

 

[SeeD]

As with real amps, I think it would be nice to give the amp models some wiggle room like 10 - 20 % when tweaking the models to a real amp.
With a real amp in the real world, the gain, eq, vol controls can vary a bit.

Last video:

Fractal had more gain, and a bit more `dence` and the Mid was a bit off ( more like a marshall) stiffer, more poky in the gain sound
Helix was a bit to bright ( and less Bass as the last time) sounded thin
Quad Cortex bass a bit bass heavy, but lowering the bass to 2 would help, maybe a bit, and a bit more dence in the low mid
Turd Master was ok, I just dont like the amp sounds as much as the others

 

[Whizzinby]

Another comparison. Deluxe Reverb, this time with an amp for reference.

There is something off with TMP for sure, it was super apparent in the cleanup section of the video. I don’t think the Helix model was all that flattering either.

The Quad Cortex continues to show itself extremely well.

And as always, nothing beats the actual amp.

 

[aivoryuk]

In the deluxe video - the amp sounds the best (as you would expect) - I wasn't blown away by any of the models but the Fractal was the closest

 

[FractalAudio]

Another comparison. Deluxe Reverb, this time with an amp for reference.

What did you use for a load box? A Deluxe Reverb has low negative feedback so its response is quite dependent upon the load. The Axe-Fx and Helix were a bit brighter. Many of these load boxes roll off in the high end compared to a real speaker. A real speaker is "semi-inductive". It's impedance continues to rise with frequency. There are no discrete semi-inductive components so load boxes are made using an inductor and a resistor to model the semi-inductance. It's only a close fit up to 10kHz or so. You *could* design a more accurate load box but you'd need to use many inductors and many resistors in parallel (dozens) and the cost would be prohibitive.

Re. the cleanup test: I'm assuming you're using a reissue. The preamp tubes that ship in those are junk (Groove Tubes). The way I model an amp is to start out theoretically based on the schematic. It's usually pretty accurate. On our Deluxe Reverb model the real amp had much less gain than predicted. I was racking my brain trying to figure it out. Finally I decided to replace all those Groove Tubes with a different brand and, voila'. the amp now had the same gain as predicted.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Excellent video. As expected.

You know what also would be an interesting comparison? The comparable (laterst fw) Mustang GTX amp models vs. the same ones in the TurdBlaster.

 

[Gearzilla]

You know what also would be an interesting comparison? The comparable (laterst fw) Mustang GTX amp models vs. the same ones in the TurdBlaster.

 

[JiveTurkey]

View attachment 15010

We need a cigar smilie. And shipping quotes to Australia

 

[2112]

What did you use for a load box? A Deluxe Reverb has low negative feedback so its response is quite dependent upon the load. The Axe-Fx and Helix were a bit brighter. Many of these load boxes roll off in the high end compared to a real speaker. A real speaker is "semi-inductive". It's impedance continues to rise with frequency. There are no discrete semi-inductive components so load boxes are made using an inductor and a resistor to model the semi-inductance. It's only a close fit up to 10kHz or so. You *could* design a more accurate load box but you'd need to use many inductors and many resistors in parallel (dozens) and the cost would be prohibitive.

Re. the cleanup test: I'm assuming you're using a reissue. The preamp tubes that ship in those are junk (Groove Tubes). The way I model an amp is to start out theoretically based on the schematic. It's usually pretty accurate. On our Deluxe Reverb model the real amp had much less gain than predicted. I was racking my brain trying to figure it out. Finally I decided to replace all those Groove Tubes with a different brand and, voila'. the amp now had the same gain as predicted.

X-Load, set to "US". Axe-Fx amp block had speaker drive/comp/thump/compliance at 0 with impedance curve set to X-Load US.

Had a peak behind the amp and you guessed it...

Even the cat was judging the tubes.

 

[metropolis_4]

I’ve never been a fan of the Fractal Deluxe Reverb model. It’s always felt stiff in the mids to me. I’m guessing maybe it’s one of the reissues? A lot of the reissues feel the same way to me.

It would be really cool to see Fractal model the ‘64 Custom DR. I don’t know what it is but there’s something special about that one.
The first time I plugged into it I just sat there strumming a G for about 10 minutes with my jaw on the floor

 

[FuzzyAce]

Nice vid Leon! @2112

The real amp sounded great of course, but to my ears again the Fractal shined. The QC was maybe a bit tubby, the Helix a bit shrill, the TMP too tame.

 

[JiveTurkey]

There is a 5150III model in that latest GT/GTX fw

https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/...00000_Mustang_GTX_expanded_manual_ENGLISH.pdf

 

[GTR37]

the Fractal was the closest to the amp IMO
Helix was a bit too bright and thinner as others said
QC was a little darker, more low mid almost sounded like it needed a bright switch on
Fender , where to start , the base model with their speakers was not great , but the Ir was really bad , I think it is safe to say that if you have a personal Ir that you love and want to use on thew TMP . ya don;'t do that .

Clean up . Fractal was best , Helix sounded like it lost a bit , QC was decent but not as dynamic as the FAS,

Fender Last place again, and worked about as well as you would expect rolling off a Recto red , ok maybe a bit better but worst of the bunch by a mile

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

X-Load, set to "US". Axe-Fx amp block had speaker drive/comp/thump/compliance at 0 with impedance curve set to X-Load US.

Had a peak behind the amp and you guessed it...

View attachment 15011


Even the cat was judging the tubes.

Cats by their very nature are judgemental.

In the 90's when you could still get NOS 12ax7's for a decent price I got quite a few for my 68 Bandmaster and early 70's Dual Showman Reverb, and the difference between them and current production tubes was not subtle.
As NOS tubes started to dry up, dealers started selling ANOS (almost NOS) tubes. They were pulls from medical equipment and whatever else old tech had tubes where they weren't driven at high voltages, and still tested as new. From a reputable dealer who tests properly, these are a good option as well.
I haven't bought a tube since 2008 when I got an Axe-FX, and I've noticed even current production tubes are ridiculously expensive. Not sure what's available to you, but if you can score a few old school 12ax7's, It would make for a cool comparison video.
As always, thanks for the excellent content!

 

[Gearzilla]

We need a cigar smilie. And shipping quotes to Australia

 

[dean701]

What did you use for a load box? A Deluxe Reverb has low negative feedback so its response is quite dependent upon the load. The Axe-Fx and Helix were a bit brighter. Many of these load boxes roll off in the high end compared to a real speaker. A real speaker is "semi-inductive". It's impedance continues to rise with frequency. There are no discrete semi-inductive components so load boxes are made using an inductor and a resistor to model the semi-inductance. It's only a close fit up to 10kHz or so. You *could* design a more accurate load box but you'd need to use many inductors and many resistors in parallel (dozens) and the cost would be prohibitive.

Re. the cleanup test: I'm assuming you're using a reissue. The preamp tubes that ship in those are junk (Groove Tubes). The way I model an amp is to start out theoretically based on the schematic. It's usually pretty accurate. On our Deluxe Reverb model the real amp had much less gain than predicted. I was racking my brain trying to figure it out. Finally I decided to replace all those Groove Tubes with a different brand and, voila'. the amp now had the same gain as predicted.

Your load box question and the expertise you brought forward reminded me of this gem.


Not sure what the technical differences are but the comparison was very interesting

 

[duzie]

 

[riffy]

I have said from the start that none of the amps sound right in the TMP to me... Maybe it is just my ears,
but, they are all off.