Kemper Profiler MK 2

[[Nathan]]

Just had my monthly "Is this shit out yet" thought... nope (v2 captures).
I'm only half paying attention but didnt they say at NAMM that it was basically out?

 

[timbuck3]

I'll wait to see if it nulls better than the Valeton GP-5 before calling it that way

Is the gp200 a larger version?

 

[OneEng]

Just checked a few pages of the Kemper forum to see if the V2 profiling had any more talk.

Lots of talk, a few disgruntled members, but no timeline for the V2 release.

Mods described running an MK2 profile on an MK1 as painting the same picture with 2 different crayon sets (seems like a poor example to me). You may have someone favor one picture over the other, but the artwork is identical. I am guessing that this means that V2 would be the equivalent of using paint vs crayons .

Considering the length of time it is taking to get this out, MY guess is that their original efforts were A TOTAL WASTE and they had to go back to the drawing board.

Maybe we should start a poll to see how many people think V2 Profiling in Kemper will come out the gate inferior to ToneX? I have a feeling it would have been, but now that they are SOOO late, they may have a chance. We will see.

I do notice that the shine seems to be wearing off the penny with respect to the Stadium though. Lots of people saying it sounds too much like the Helix and costs way more. I do seem to hear it is pretty stable though. Kudo's to Line-6 for that.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Mods described running an MK2 profile on an MK1 as painting the same picture with 2 different crayon sets

So neither one paints a terribly accurate picture and both look like they were drawn by children?

 

[nightlight]

I heard the Neural DSP V2 captures are being highly rated foe their accuracy in comparison to V1. So it seems like Kemper kind of got upstaged when that happened, and it's a back to the drawing board scenario.

All said and done, however, worth remembering that Kemper was the first to come up with a method to profile guitar amps, so I would harbour no doubts that V2 profiling will be a step up from V1 (other than that really strange analogy about paint and crayons).

 

[BenIfin]

Mods described running an MK2 profile on an MK1 as painting the same picture with 2 different crayon sets (seems like a poor example to me). You may have someone favor one picture over the other, but the artwork is identical. I am guessing that this means that V2 would be the equivalent of using paint vs crayons .

So neither one paints a terribly accurate picture and both look like they were drawn by children?

In all honesty, from Day 1, you could easily be forgiven for thinking that Kemper are deliberately trying to "de-credibl'ize" and "clust-f*ck-up" this whole hardware and software upgrade.

Its gotten so bad its depressingly laughable ... and this is *the* company that literally invented and started the whole profiling / capturing universe

 

[Gary_W]

I do notice that the shine seems to be wearing off the penny with respect to the Stadium though. Lots of people saying it sounds too much like the Helix and costs way more. I do seem to hear it is pretty stable though. Kudo's to Line-6 for that.

Going from Helix to Stadium, you’ve (currently!) gained a better interface, focus view, better quality converters, 40+ amp channels based on the new Agoura platform, hype mode, some lifestyle improvements, 1st version of Showcase. You also gained first generation teething problems which are either ‘so bad I can’t stand it’ (some users have returned them) right through to ‘I have no issues worth worrying about’. They’ve sold tons of the things and consequently you’ll get a lot of opinions. I’m in the second camp but then again it’s my fun time - I’m not making a living from using it.

For me as a Kemper user who switched, I’ve gained all the above plus all the original amps and effects. I’ve also gained the ability to do two amps at once if I want to. I’m very much enjoying it.

The biggest thing I’ve gained (and the old Helix users have gained) is a platform with enough legs to grow. There’s been one upgrade already which added the 1st gen of Showcase (I’m enjoying it already) plus 3 more amps. They’re saying ‘proxy should be March’ and I have a high amount of confidence it’ll be March. Of course I could be wrong but I don’t think they’ll be far off. The company was up-front with how much had changed hardware wise whilst building on a 10 year legacy of free upgrades. This spoke to me,

I know you shouldn’t buy futures but (coming from a Kemper Mk1) it’s been an upgrade for me in most ways already. One of the reasons I didn’t go Kemper MK2 was because I felt like I was buying the same box again and the official forums had no interest in making me feel better about this. I didn’t have the confidence it would evolve over the years for this reason but I never dreamed they’d drop the ball in the way they have with the ‘new profiling’. I have a reasonable expectation of continuous improvement here in stadium land - I no longer felt that way with Kemper which is a shame.

 

[OneEng]

So neither one paints a terribly accurate picture and both look like they were drawn by children?

LOL. Which is why I thought it was a bad example to use.

I heard the Neural DSP V2 captures are being highly rated foe their accuracy in comparison to V1. So it seems like Kemper kind of got upstaged when that happened, and it's a back to the drawing board scenario.

All said and done, however, worth remembering that Kemper was the first to come up with a method to profile guitar amps, so I would harbour no doubts that V2 profiling will be a step up from V1 (other than that really strange analogy about paint and crayons).

I think it is certainly a tragic story to tell. Something so revolutionary was simply allowed to rot on the vine while others took over. I have often argued that Kemper should have refocused their marketing on how great a gig rig Kemper is. IMO, they still maintain an advantage in this area. Arguing that they are perfectly accurate is simply an insult to people who have evidence to prove it isn't true.... but that seems to be the hill they decided to die for.

In all honesty, from Day 1, you could easily be forgiven for thinking that Kemper are deliberately trying to "de-credibl'ize" and "clust-f*ck-up" this whole hardware and software upgrade.

Its gotten so bad its depressingly laughable ... and this is *the* company that literally invented and started the whole profiling / capturing universe

I find it quite sad as well.

Going from Helix to Stadium, you’ve (currently!) gained a better interface, focus view, better quality converters, 40+ amp channels based on the new Agoura platform, hype mode, some lifestyle improvements, 1st version of Showcase. You also gained first generation teething problems which are either ‘so bad I can’t stand it’ (some users have returned them) right through to ‘I have no issues worth worrying about’. They’ve sold tons of the things and consequently you’ll get a lot of opinions. I’m in the second camp but then again it’s my fun time - I’m not making a living from using it.

For me as a Kemper user who switched, I’ve gained all the above plus all the original amps and effects. I’ve also gained the ability to do two amps at once if I want to. I’m very much enjoying it.

The biggest thing I’ve gained (and the old Helix users have gained) is a platform with enough legs to grow. There’s been one upgrade already which added the 1st gen of Showcase (I’m enjoying it already) plus 3 more amps. They’re saying ‘proxy should be March’ and I have a high amount of confidence it’ll be March. Of course I could be wrong but I don’t think they’ll be far off. The company was up-front with how much had changed hardware wise whilst building on a 10 year legacy of free upgrades. This spoke to me,

I know you shouldn’t buy futures but (coming from a Kemper Mk1) it’s been an upgrade for me in most ways already. One of the reasons I didn’t go Kemper MK2 was because I felt like I was buying the same box again and the official forums had no interest in making me feel better about this. I didn’t have the confidence it would evolve over the years for this reason but I never dreamed they’d drop the ball in the way they have with the ‘new profiling’. I have a reasonable expectation of continuous improvement here in stadium land - I no longer felt that way with Kemper which is a shame.

I think that your POV is likely common. While I find it difficult to justify a 2K purchase to replace my MK1 that is (after all) still getting the job done every week, when the time does come, MK2 is very unlikely to be my next choice for all the reasons you outlined.

 

[mbenigni]

I don't see that being a priority. Honestly, rack gear is cool but we are seeing a shift away from it. Line 6 launched their new gen as floor unit only (at the moment) and has stated before the floor units greatly outsold the Helix rack.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Axe Fx IV line launches with a floor modeler to start.

Yeah, rackmount design doesn't exactly go hand in hand with the emphasis on large surface area touchscreens, which the market is favoring right now (and IMO for the foreseeable future.)

 

[mbenigni]

You are correct - Kemper products aren't going to change.

I was an early adopter when the original toaster was released, and I immediately got the sense that CK could be a little bit... resistive to change. In the years since Kemper has done a lot to improve the platform, so I'm not pretending they don't put the work in. But I can recall recommending a very minor change to the KPA's MIDI implementation and CK replying, essentially, "It cannot be your way because it is my way." (When the two ways were by no means mutually exclusive.)

That put me of a mind to jump ship almost immediately. When I did finally decide to give the (then new) Helix Floor a go... well, the forum moderators weren't a problem at that time, but some of the Kemper faithful became absurdly hostile over the idea of anyone trying another modeler. I was happy to get away from the whole scene.

 

[LP59]

I was an early adopter when the original toaster was released, and I immediately got the sense that CK could be a little bit... resistive to change. In the years since Kemper has done a lot to improve the platform, so I'm not pretending they don't put the work in. But I can recall recommending a very minor change to the KPA's MIDI implementation and CK replying, essentially, "It cannot be your way because it is my way." (When the two ways were by no means mutually exclusive.)

That put me of a mind to jump ship almost immediately. When I did finally decide to give the (then new) Helix Floor a go... well, the forum moderators weren't a problem at that time, but some of the Kemper faithful became absurdly hostile over the idea of anyone trying another modeler. I was happy to get away from the whole scene.

As a rule, I don't think Kemper ever makes changes requested by users. When they release a feature, it is what it is and is never improved. They have a feature request section on their forum, but I think that's just there as a source of humor.

 

[OneEng]

Yeah, rackmount design doesn't exactly go hand in hand with the emphasis on large surface area touchscreens, which the market is favoring right now (and IMO for the foreseeable future.)

I don't disagree with your assessment. Touchscreens are great "oh-ahhh" value to the masses for sure.

I still think that most gigging musicians (especially those that tour or gig a lot) prefer a rack solution as I do just to keep the setup more simple and the cable clutter at your stage position cleaner and easier.

Of course, I don't know that you can make a good argument to cater ONLY to the frequently gigging musician when the vast majority of the customers are bedroom guitar heroes only.

I was an early adopter when the original toaster was released, and I immediately got the sense that CK could be a little bit... resistive to change. In the years since Kemper has done a lot to improve the platform, so I'm not pretending they don't put the work in. But I can recall recommending a very minor change to the KPA's MIDI implementation and CK replying, essentially, "It cannot be your way because it is my way." (When the two ways were by no means mutually exclusive.)

That put me of a mind to jump ship almost immediately. When I did finally decide to give the (then new) Helix Floor a go... well, the forum moderators weren't a problem at that time, but some of the Kemper faithful became absurdly hostile over the idea of anyone trying another modeler. I was happy to get away from the whole scene.

I have always defended the Kemper ecosystem as being particularly friendly to the gigging community and live performance. The device is well suited to this use; however, once other devices started showing up with OTHER strengths ..... strengths that lots more people than the frequent gigger found useful, .... Kemper did NOTHING to respond and became openly hostile (and down right KGBish) to those that wouldn't tow the line.

When ToneX, Quad QC, and NDSP all eclipsed Kemper's ability to accurately profile, the answer was immediately "profiling is perfect". When people complained that the Player didn't have a screen (and all other competition does).... same thing. It just seems to be that they have decided to forget "the customer is always right".

 

[nightlight]

I don't disagree with your assessment. Touchscreens are great "oh-ahhh" value to the masses for sure.

Not sure this is actually the case. Touch screens actually make it very easy and intuitive to control modellers. It's so much easier to see a parameter and tweak on screen rather than look for the knob or button that does something.

In that regard, I think the worst offender is the Axe FXIII, which is really difficult to manually programme. They have a damn good editor though, so that's a huge plus in its favour.

The Kemper though... I really hate entering rig names for saved profiles, for example. And there's a lot of menu diving involved, which makes it very difficult to most users to do more than just scratch the surface of the beast.

Just look at the Quad Cortex, with the option of "undoing" changes. That's another design choice I think other MFX/Profile manufacturers have to look at as a standard feature.

I mean, there's no denying it. The tech has come a long way. Rather than being resistant to the latest advances, it would be better to embrace the new tech that's on the market.

Looking at the Kemper V2, I just figure they thought they could save on development costs to maximise profits. I don't even find the advertisement of "xx more FX slots" as anything worthwhile when all the competition had that years ago.

I do look forward to the V2 profiling demos, of course (while also being leery of how influencers on social media paint everything and anything they get for free as great). I'd especially like to see the tech put up against the Helix Stadium and the Quad Cortex and ToneX, etc.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Someone's selling a Kemper Stage for €475. Could very likely be a fake but I'm actually tempted.

 

[[Nathan]]

Someone's selling a Kemper Stage for €475. Could very likely be a fake but I'm actually tempted.

Sometimes gear comes up at absurd prices and it makes sense again, that’s a good price. I saw an axefx2 come up here for about 350euro…. I was like, should I?

Sold mine for over double than that a couple years ago but I’ll still pass (for now)

 

[laxu]

Sometimes gear comes up at absurd prices and it makes sense again, that’s a good price. I saw an axefx2 come up here for about 350euro…. I was like, should I?

Sold mine for over double than that a couple years ago but I’ll still pass (for now)

It always becomes a "is this a good enough price that I can either sell it later, or eat the cost and keep it?" thing.
I see a lot of Kempers at around the 600 € mark on my local market. It's only going to be a race to the bottom to sell those.

I usually don't bite on old digital stuff because even though the utility value is high, they do tend to just keep losing value. Finding the right buyer is more challenging when everyone is going for the newer version.

Like I could get an Axe-Fx 3 for fairly reasonable prices used, but instead I pounced on the AM4 because it's the new thing and more in line with what I need.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

The right decision would've been allow us to at least change the stereo TRS 1/4" out to be the "MAIN" out - so that the main volume knob adjusts it.

Really ask yourself - who would run their main mix to FOH mono, and then run it stereo to their monitor(s)?

Assign monitor out to the main volume knob…

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

That is how I feel as well. Additionally, they suddenly decided to be aggressive with users on their forums. All really bad IMO.

I think it was a particularly bad idea in a bunch of ways. It's also more like $1000 all-in to "unlock" full functionality.

Strange decision indeed.

Before release, I was hoping it would allow me a lower cost backup solution that was small enough to fit in an overnight bag. As it is, it is useless for that. Better off getting a used Stage for that purpose and accepting the larger format backup.

I know I am in the minority, but I believe they didn't even turn the main board in this. It is exactly the same as the original(s) for the different models. They will hook the new profiling 2.0 to only the new hardware inside the firmware.

I used to be a pretty good hacker. Wonder if I could find the hook in the assembler code and create a binary that makes MK1 play MK2 2.0 profiles at full resolution? Might be worth an hour of effort to try ...... assuming they ever release the thing.

I still don't classify this as "fraud". It's just shitty for MK1 users ... and yes, an attempt to get existing MK1 users to buy a new unit.

Problem is ..... why would I shell out that kind of money for a NEW Kemper when I could use the SAME money and get a Stadium (non XL) instead?

I think that this among other things really shows that there isn't anything different under the hood. In fact, photographs also show this. You don't have to look far.

It's a firmware upgrade tied to a hardware upgrade that doesn't have anything to do with the new features IMO.

The tone on their forum has caused me stop going there period.
But it sorta is par for the course, one thing I really don’t like about “my people” is their intense inflexibility.

Hell that’s why I left Germany in 87 for
4 decades. And after having been back 7 of which I spent a 1/4 away from Germany once again live in a different country.

 

[Sascha Franck]

It always becomes a "is this a good enough price that I can either sell it later, or eat the cost and keep it?" thing.

I could pretty easily kinda write the thing off. And I could instantly use it for some gigs. So there'd be not too much of a risk, even if I had to sell it for 300 down the road.

 

[DrewJD82]

Really ask yourself - who would run their main mix to FOH mono, and then run it stereo to their monitor(s)?

That’s exactly how I designed my live rig to work in a ‘have my cake and eat it too’ situation, which is rare enough that I haven’t even gotten to try it yet. Contrary to internet forums, the overwhelming majority of local venues are not running stereo PA’s and even if they were, are not setup for an audience to receive a stereo mix in a way that would make it worthwhile, in most cases it would only cause a lacking of one side or the other.

So I have a bank of presets in my FM9 that send stereo effects to real cabs onstage while sending a duplicate, mono effects chain to an IR that can be sent to FOH. Add to that, the majority of venues where I’m playing are small enough that the cabs onstage are providing the bulk of volume and whatever is coming out of the PA is to ensure they can hear it in the back.