Karl Houseknecht
Roadie
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When I said all these same things about Kemper years ago, I was just labeled a hater. I truly wanted them to get off their asses and catch up.
D
Deleted member 3656
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Oh yeah, that one. They did keep selling it for some years after development ended, but eventually that stopped too, and the whole thing turned into a wasteland.
If you look at it from a value perspective, Kemper offers a really good value for guys that gig. Still, to your point, where they started out being considered a premium option (really just them and Fractal), today they seem more like the old tech that sounds good and is robust vs. the "Wow, I need that" device.
Kemper is still my #1 recommendation for a used unit. You can get one for ~ $600-$700. That's a lot of capability for a gig at that price.
I agree with your point though. They have definitely given up the high ground.
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I’m really curious at this point what’s taking so long to get V2 out. I’d have to think that the more time goes by, the more people will be expecting a significant difference from V1. It’s hard for me not to assume that they announced it when they had it ready behind the scenes, but the introduction of all the other V2’s, Stadium’s Proxy talk and NAM popping up in various units caused them to say “Fuck, we need V2 to be more than what we planned on releasing”
You're probably right. Just look at all the things that have happened since Kemper's new profiling announcement in the spring:
- NDSP had a major update to the Nanocortex, adding many effects, making it comparable to the Kemper Player
- Line6 announced the Stadium, including Proxy
- IK released a major new revision of the Tonex capturing engine
- Fractal announced NAM support in a future generation
- Line6 released the Stadium
- Fractal announced and released the AM4
- NDSP had a major update, greatly improving QuadCortex and Nanocortex captures
Each one of these could have been cause for Kemper to go back to the drawing board.
guitarsandcoffee
Groupie
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- 25
This is a really good question. Having used Kemper for the last several years, I think I would still post the question because we can see how the other platforms are moving forward.
If you dive into the forums at Kemper, you'll find feature requests that have been asked for during the last 10 years they have never addressed.
In fairness, had they never said anything about MK2 - I would hold less expectation on them. Though Kemper has had this attitude of "what is there to upgrade" for a long time.
Guitarwiz007
Groupie
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I agree with the Kemper forum comments regarding the moderators. They are very close minded and very acerbic in their comments. All that aside though, Kemper is still my go to for all my live playing. Started with the Stage and now I use the Player Level III. It just works and sounds as good as anything on the market but it is the "feel" of playing through one that is more satisfying than all the rest. I still love my FM3 and my Helix is great and fun to play around with. I had the QC for a short period but I didn't think the "captures" sounded and felt as good as the Kemper so it went back. But for live music, it's my Kemper 1000%. I do take my FM3 as a backup but have never needed it. I have over 100 gigs on the Player at this point and it has given me nothing but excellent tone.
I would like to see them advance the UI. I don't need the sound or feel to change. It would be nice to have a touch screen like the Headrush or now the Stadium. I don't need it but if they came out with it, I would probably upgrade. These days, I think most modelers/profilers can be set up to sound fantastic. Some take more work than others but the top tier ones can all be used to extreme satisfaction. I think Kemper just needs to start realizing that in order to "stay in the game", they are going to have to offer more than just sound. Usability is the future of these platforms. Use whatever you want, I'm sticking to Kemper for now. The Stadium is interesting but it will have (QC anyone?) features I would most likely never use but I do have to admit I like how they are approaching it.
I would like to see them advance the UI. I don't need the sound or feel to change. It would be nice to have a touch screen like the Headrush or now the Stadium. I don't need it but if they came out with it, I would probably upgrade. These days, I think most modelers/profilers can be set up to sound fantastic. Some take more work than others but the top tier ones can all be used to extreme satisfaction. I think Kemper just needs to start realizing that in order to "stay in the game", they are going to have to offer more than just sound. Usability is the future of these platforms. Use whatever you want, I'm sticking to Kemper for now. The Stadium is interesting but it will have (QC anyone?) features I would most likely never use but I do have to admit I like how they are approaching it.
guitarsandcoffee
Groupie
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I do wonder if there was a fundamental shift with marketing and product development at Kemper. The Player is a prime example of how different of a product launch they had versus years ago. The Kemper Stage is built for the musician and for ease of use. But the Player -
The Player has (1) XLR main out - but (2) TRS monitor outs? The Player has no display, but hundreds of rig slots? You cannot connect a tablet to control it via USB - must be through Wi-Fi which adds interference. We can have up to 8 fx blocks...but only two knobs to control two of them?
I remember when the Player came out, a lot of us questioned what exactly it's supposed to be. It's not an all-in one, but it's more than just an "amp in the box". And we all wished it had a nice 5" touch screen on it.
The kicker was Kemper's Facebook page promoted a third-party USB powered display to go with it...for another $80.
The Player has (1) XLR main out - but (2) TRS monitor outs? The Player has no display, but hundreds of rig slots? You cannot connect a tablet to control it via USB - must be through Wi-Fi which adds interference. We can have up to 8 fx blocks...but only two knobs to control two of them?
I remember when the Player came out, a lot of us questioned what exactly it's supposed to be. It's not an all-in one, but it's more than just an "amp in the box". And we all wished it had a nice 5" touch screen on it.
The kicker was Kemper's Facebook page promoted a third-party USB powered display to go with it...for another $80.
D
Deleted member 3656
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Wider testing maybe revealing bad results in some scenarios?
When they initially announced profiling 2.0, I got the impression they were considerably further into development, testing included. But that may not have been the case.
And maybe another reason is that it's just freaking hard to improve profiling, considering whatever constraints there are, which may not apply to tonex and NAM.
But who knows.
Can imagine that. Or also that maybe some people simply stop caring about the topic whatsoever, and when V2 comes out, no shits will be given.
Also a realistic probability, I believe.
They may have run tests against these updated capturing processes. If V2 profiling wasn't up to par, they knew there's gonna be skilled YouTube testers illustrating how.
But then again, part of me doubts they'd go that far.
Guitarwiz007
Groupie
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Which I bought and am a huge fan. But I agree. A bit bigger with at least a display would have been nice. But I love my little rig.
guitarsandcoffee
Groupie
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I appreciate your insight. I have shows lined up early next year that I will still use the Kemper for because the performances and workflow are already set. After that, it'll be time to look elsewhere for me.
Like you, the tone and feel are good. The dynamics could use more work compared to a real amp; I definitely notice this when I fire up my real amp.
But the UI and MK2 releases - it's just insane at this point. I don't think Kemper will ever change the UI. It's been brought up so many times and they still haven't.
A lot of people thought with MK2 they would unlock the block layout. And then the MK2 physical products came out and we realized they won't.
guitarsandcoffee
Groupie
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I completely understand wanting that display to go with it. I just meant, if the product is good enough to gig with, you shouldn't need to promote third-party accessories.
If you are happy with your setup, that really is all that matters. We are all here just voicing opinions about our rigs, setups, and wishes.
guitarsandcoffee
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I think Kemper is realizing, based on the forums, that a lot of us are unhappy and V2 is the only way they are going to at least stop the bleeding. The moderators can do as they please, but between the forum and sales I'm sure Kemper is hurting.
That video interview did so much damage in my opinion. The guy said it was like going from 4K to 5K - really...not 8K? Just a slight amount better? And then to watch him have to restart rig manager...and have to use rig manager on a Windows machine to control it. Kemper; it's 2025, nearly 2026. If I were in charge of Kemper's marketing, I'd pay to have that video taken down.
I also think in 2026, musicians (myself included) are going to choose based on workflow and options more than tone/feel because they are all getting to the point where you cannot tell a difference between them. Neither can the audience. It'll be about how can this device make my workflow easier (in my opinion).
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Probably realised that they're absolutely being trounced on the accuracy fronts, and they're crossing all the T's and dotting all the I's to try and get it tip top.
In any case, I'm barely interested. Even if they do massively improve the quality of the profiling, and it reaches NAM levels of accuracy... you've still gotta deal with that user interface that even after owning 6 units across 11 years, I still had problems using.... and you still ultimately have to deal with all of the limitations of the device.
D
Deleted member 3656
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Thing is, in that video CK said the bass end of profiling 2.0 is "much more accurate". That seems to contradict 4k to 5k Kemper guitarist who kept repeating the "higher resolution" buzzwords.
So who is right? I don't know. But it's a little funny how the bass end is now "much more accurate". What happened? I thought Kemper inaccuracies were just rumours, Kemper mods?
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Hahahaha after seeing the textbook definition of intentional obtuseness/giving the runaround from one of their mods the last time I was at that forum regarding aliasing when presented with a video demonstrating it, I would fully expect them to shove their fingers in their ears and state “No, it’s perfect.”
guitarsandcoffee
Groupie
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Kemper's marketing team is not good. But then again - what are they supposed to market? "Check this out! New paint!".
For me, I just notice a difference between profiles and the real amp when it comes to two things; the picking dynamics and reaction of the profile, and how the profile reacts to the volume knob.
Honestly - if Kemper would improve this about profiles and give a much more flexible block chain and much easier to use UI I'd probably stick with it because of how invested I've been over the years. But I cannot simply ignore all the improvements on all the other platforms.
.... and this is what I believe as well.
Kemper is more than good enough for tone. More than good enough for gigging / setup / robustness. The GUI and workflow?
At a BARE minimum, the MK2 should have included a color LCD. Personally, I would have included one on the Player as well simply because it is a marketing tool.
It's like Kemper doesn't understand the kinds of guitar player that would buy an expensive modeler. A big percentage of them are tech-heads. Line 6 certainly understands this as is evident by their product release.
I'll keep using my Kemper for now. It still gets the job done just fine; however, I am in the market for a new device and currently, Kemper isn't looking good. I'll have to take a trip to GC and spend some time on the Stadium with my Kemper side-by-side, but at the end of the day, features do matter. How quickly you can achieve a particular tone matters.
guitarsandcoffee
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Have you tried Sweetwater? You have a nice 30-day return policy to try out things. No, I do not work there :)
I was always happy enough with the Kemper sounds - for my ears, the Stadium is better but the Kemper still does a great job considering its age IMO. Better is always welcome but it needed to be more than that when my ears were not unhappy.
Features matter to me too - I’m unlikely to use everything the stadium has to offer over its life. Its launch features are impressive and I am confident it’s got the hardware legs to grow into areas I can’t yet imagine. I did not know I wanted focus view until they invented it. I am genuinely excited by the concept of what they’ll blow me away with next and where it will go. Of course, you should never buy futures but I’m as confident as I can be that the super cool product I already have will become immeasurably cooler. I could be wrong but it’s reasonable to believe it.
If I’d invested in a mk2, I’d have had the same tones until they launch the new profiling plus a tiny handful of improvements that were of no value to me. If I’d bought in May I’d be climbing the wall of regret right now. Plus I’d have had the long, lingering feeling that I was essentially buying pretty much the same box. I tried to persuade them on the forum to convince me of the hardware differences that would allow me to buy with confidence - I am not a gear flipper…. If I’m buying something, I research as best I can and stick with it. When Line 6 offers me a demonstrably more capable platform that will grow and Kemper offers me something which, to me, seems the same? We have an issue. Especially as they had no interest in correcting my assumptions that it’s almost entirely the same box. I do not know this for sure but if my assumption were not true, why on earth would they not clearly say so? Like Jazz, you sometimes have to listen to the quiet bits.
So here we are with a rather lovely stadium at home which I’m enjoying immensely so far. I hope Kemper make their still loyal fan base happy when they finally bring out the mk2 - it would really suck to have invested in Summer and be here now. I’m hoping for good things for the folks who did that.
