Kemper Profiler MK 2

I can’t ever recall seeing an ekit at a live gig. Festivals, club shows, house shows, 1000 cap venues, 5000+, stadiums etc. I’m sure it’s happened once or twice without me knowing but for the stuff I listen to in the punk/rock/metal genres it’s not a thing. They’ll use pads and triggers for extra bits and pieces but the core is an acoustic kit.

I love ekits, if I had more room I’d grab one to mess around with. Even at the expensive end they seem to need a bit of dialing in with the hits. I can’t imagine throwing it in a car and transporting them would do it any favours. I can see why just using a half decent acoustic kit just makes sense for gigging (cost and sound wise).
 
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[Nathan] said:
I can’t ever recall seeing an ekit at a live gig. Festivals, club shows, house shows, 1000 cap venues, 5000+, stadiums etc. I’m sure it’s happened once or twice without me knowing but for the stuff I listen to in the punk/rock/metal genres it’s not a thing. They’ll use pads and triggers for extra bits and pieces but the core is an acoustic kit.

I love ekits, if I had more room I’d grab one to mess around with. Even at the expensive end they seem to need a bit of dialing in with the hits. I can’t imagine throwing it in a car and transporting them would do it any favours. I can see why just using a half decent acoustic kit just makes sense for gigging (cost and sound wise).
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I think we're used to think that not having an acoustic drumkit in a gig is kinda "cheap", but I really think it's not, but just a cultural thing. If it sounds good, it's good. We've said it many times about digital amps.

I don't know where you people live, but in Spain it's becoming more and more difficult finding venues to play, and moving to another city and having to carry your full drumkit makes things a bit more difficult (not everyone can afford a van, for instance).

There are few venues with their own drumkit, amps, etc, and they've lately become quite more expensive, so being able to carry a v-drums kit is just so convenient if you play in an indie band which doesn't bring many people to gigs.

I'm a bit bitter, I know, but lately I'm finding rock a lot harder to play live, so I'm just thinking of acceptable solutions out loud. Carrying guitars, bass, keyboards, e-drums, modelers, and maybe a mixer in your car, is easier than what other bands were able to do in the past. You'd only need the venue to have loud speakers. It's a matter of making things a bit easier to keep rock alive for smaller bands, given that audience is smaller and venues are less willing to make room for us.

What I really hope it's that tides change and playing rock live is as feasible as it was in the 90s. But I loose faith everyday. Maybe in 10 years... But AI music is coming (like winter in game of thrones) and I expect things to become worse.
 
ian_dissonance said:
I can find two a weekend, every weekend, lol. The bad sounding and oblivious bands, that is. Even if you want to use a cab, I’d prefer not to leave the mic’ing up to the house guy, lol.
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I can find more than two a weekend ;).
Ed DeGenaro said:
How do you extrapolate any Kemper capture accuracy in the side discussion? Really reaching there
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.... From the people who were stating that eDrums don't sound like the real thing .... and that the real thing sounds better even when the samples being used were real ;).

Still ..... yea, it was quite a reach ;).
 
OneEng said:
I can find more than two a weekend ;).

.... From the people who were stating that eDrums don't sound like the real thing .... and that the real thing sounds better even when the samples being used were real ;).

Still ..... yea, it was quite a reach ;).
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When one hits an Edrum the stick position is predetermined? Where as an acoustic drum has a variable that potentially isn't acounted for in the sample?

I like E drums but there is a human variable that isn't preset in today's sampling.

Hearing Fear Factory live years ago was jaw dropping but real drums are a different animal.
 
Deadpan said:
When one hits an Edrum the stick position is predetermined? Where as an acoustic drum has a variable that potentially isn't acounted for in the sample?

I like E drums but there is a human variable that isn't preset in today's sampling.

Hearing Fear Factory live years ago was jaw dropping but real drums are a different animal.
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You're right about that, but there is more to it as well.

There's a ton of modal interactions that happen when you strike a drum membrane (or cymbal for that matter!) and samples don't capture the physics behind that.
 
I know next to nothing about drums but the discussion is fascinating enough that I would love to see a few pages of posts moved to a separate thread under Digital and modeling.
 
Deadpan said:
In both samples the Kemper is first.

I may throw the SLO100 at the Kemper next.

It will be good to have a few clips to compare the difference in the new profiling.
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Quite surprising to me. Then I prefer the Kemper, in the first Clip, by a considerable margin. It sounds.. less like what I'm used to with my own profiles, and more like the source amps.
 
As a Kemper and Axe 3 owner I can say that certain types of amp profiles definitely feel more real than the axe is capable of. Clean and break up amps are far more like actual amps to play through than the same on the axe. But the more gain you add to the equation the more the Axe comes in to its own. It’s also massively affected by how you amplify it because "FRFR" is not an amp experience before you even get in to this.
 
Dimiguitar said:
Quite surprising to me. Then I prefer the Kemper, in the first Clip, by a considerable margin. It sounds.. less like what I'm used to with my own profiles, and more like the source amps.
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I think both sounded decent (can't say much more, not the kinda sounds I'd use) and would possibly not be distinguishable in a sort of busy mix (maybe with the help of some EQ) anymore, but I also think it's beyond the point. Because, regardless of which version one prefers, outside of a mix, there's easily detectable differences. Which demonstrates that the Kemper isn't as accurate as other competitors.

Note, and as said umpteenth times before: Personally, I wouldn't mind. For my use cases, the "I'm fine" threshold has been passed quite a while ago already. But I'm not even close to being a corksniffer.
 
Sascha Franck said:
I think both sounded decent (can't say much more, not the kinda sounds I'd use) and would possibly not be distinguishable in a sort of busy mix (maybe with the help of some EQ) anymore, but I also think it's beyond the point. Because, regardless of which version one prefers, outside of a mix, there's easily detectable differences. Which demonstrates that the Kemper isn't as accurate as other competitors.

Note, and as said umpteenth times before: Personally, I wouldn't mind. For my use cases, the "I'm fine" threshold has been passed quite a while ago already. But I'm not even close to being a corksniffer.
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Sure, if it's about accuracy, which sounds best is beyond the point indeed. It's just relevant if the issue is about sounding better or about whether Kemper has a recognizable tone.

For accuracy, imo the difference between Kemper and amp in clip 1 is large enough to where you may as well be listening to considerably different high gain amps through the same cab and mic.
 
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Eagle said:
As a Kemper and Axe 3 owner I can say that certain types of amp profiles definitely feel more real than the axe is capable of. Clean and break up amps are far more like actual amps to play through than the same on the axe. But the more gain you add to the equation the more the Axe comes in to its own. It’s also massively affected by how you amplify it because ""FRFR"" is not an amp experience before you even get in to this.
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My experience was similar. One of the best digital tones I’ve ever had live was using Profiles of a Benson in a Kemper Stage. I like the way Kemper sounds for those low watt cathode biased amp tones better than the axe
 
metropolis_4 said:
My experience was similar. One of the best digital tones I’ve ever had live was using Profiles of a Benson in a Kemper Stage. I like the way Kemper sounds for those low watt cathode biased amp tones better than the axe
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Agreed and the players experience is way closer to a tube amp than Axe3 . I think if you make great profiles of amps that are sympathetic to the Kemper’s core tone it hasn’t been equaled . Accuracy also depends upon this. Get a low gain tube amp set up in the studio and profile it then play the profile back through the same cab without moving it and you have the closest digital version out of what is available. This is by the measure of being sat in the room playing both ab.
 
Eagle said:
As a Kemper and Axe 3 owner I can say that certain types of amp profiles definitely feel more real than the axe is capable of. Clean and break up amps are far more like actual amps to play through than the same on the axe. But the more gain you add to the equation the more the Axe comes in to its own. It’s also massively affected by how you amplify it because ""FRFR"" is not an amp experience before you even get in to this.
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What do you think makes these profiles feel more real than fractal?
 
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