Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Sascha Franck]

Electronic drumkits have had numerous years of outselling acoustic drumkits too.

Maybe because they're popular for home usage. On stage, you still see real drums most of the time.

 

[Orvillain]

Maybe because they're popular for home usage. On stage, you still see real drums most of the time.

Yes absolutely agreed.

 

[Orvillain]

I didn’t even want to go there, but let’s not forget how much music these days, or for the past 30 years, doesn’t have a drummer on an acoustic or electric kit. If you count samples and drum machines, acoustic drums are pretty down in popularity.

If you only count apes hitting things with sticks, maybe acoustic drums are still more popular than electric kits, but that is a maybe.

Yep.

The thing is, and something that links back to what I think @Jarick was trying to get across, about people projecting their ways of working onto others; the reality is... there's a lot of different ways to get the job done; to make music. A heckuva lot of music isn't even written by bands 'playing' instruments; even rock stuff.

 

[Chocol8]

Maybe because they're popular for home usage. On stage, you still see real drums most of the time.

What size stage, in what genres, and what countries? Yes, a lot of music I go see live still involves acoustic drums, but the stuff my kids go see almost never does.

 

[Sascha Franck]

What size stage, in what genres, and what countries?

Pretty much any size, any genre (minus musicals and real electronic genres) and any country. You'd be hard pressed to find 1 band using electronic kits for 20 using real kits on, say, YT. Professional bands usually can afford using real drums (in case the music is made with real drums) and smaller acts can not afford using electronic kits as it requires very good monitoring.

As an anecdote: Had two gigs the last two days. First gig was a telephone band gig, but that gig usually is without IEMs. The drummer has been so "smart" to bring his electronic drums, though. As a result everybody wanted to have drums on their wedges and because of that the drum sound on stage was almost a desaster - and possibly even louder than if the guy had just brought a standard kit.
Todays gig (similar music) was with a real drum kit and everything was just great.

Sure, if you play hotel bar gigs, electronic kits are useful. But a good drummer will be able to play great without much volume (I know of one guy who's sometimes playing a kid's set with knitting needles - and not only is he in the pocket as much as it gets, it also sounds fantastic).
Then there's gigs demanding multiple sounds. Sure, electronic kits are very useful there, possibly a requirement.

But in general, real drums are still in the vast majority on all gigs I play, know of or watch.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Pretty much any size, any genre (minus musicals and real electronic genres) and any country. You'd be hard pressed to find 1 band using electronic kits for 20 using real kits on, say, YT. Professional bands usually can afford using real drums (in case the music is made with real drums) and smaller acts can not afford using electronic kits as it requires very good monitoring.

As an anecdote: Had two gigs the last two days. First gig was a telephone band gig, but that gig usually is without IEMs. The drummer has been so "smart" to bring his electronic drums, though. As a result everybody wanted to have drums on their wedges and because of that the drum sound on stage was almost a desaster - and possibly even louder than if the guy had just brought a standard kit.
Todays gig (similar music) was with a real drum kit and everything was just great.

Sure, if you play hotel bar gigs, electronic kits are useful. But a good drummer will be able to play great without much volume (I know of one guy who's sometimes playing a kid's set with knitting needles - and not only is he in the pocket as much as it gets, it also sounds fantastic).
Then there's gigs demanding multiple sounds. Sure, electronic kits are very useful there, possibly a requirement.

But in general, real drums are still in the vast majority on all gigs I play, know of or watch.

Gotta say the only places I’ve seen e-kits at all the last decade or so where, backyard music schools with no room treatment, in guys homes for silent practice, etc.

What I keep seeing and I’m so not loving it is the Plexi booth or shields.

 

[Chocol8]

and real electronic genres

So other than hip hop, EDM, and a ton of pop, you see a lot of real drums. Yeah, I agree, but if you are talking about overall popularity, a TON of popular modern music doesn’t have a human playing an acoustic drum kit.

 

[OneEng]

But in general, real drums are still in the vast majority on all gigs I play, know of or watch.

I personally GREATLY prefer eDrums; however, most bar bands I know use acoustic drums.

As for modelers vs real tube amps, I am not as certain. 5 years back I would have still bet heavy on tube amps being much more popular; however, I think that modelers/capture units are absolutely becoming more popular quickly.

It isn't like a good tube amp rig is cheap. A used Classic 30 will still run you around $400, then add in a hand full of pedals and a decent mic and you are up to 1K.... and you are left with a fairly inflexible rig compared to a Used Kemper Stage which you can get for the same price.

What I keep seeing and I’m so not loving it is the Plexi booth or shields.

I mixed for a friend of mine's band a few weeks ago. Acoustic drums with 4 singers out front. When there was no one singing, the drums had the vocal mic's within 5db of where they were when someone WAS singing on them. They definitely need a Plexi booth or shield to sound better. It was mush city out front with no way to get the vocals above the drums.

I don't care for how it looks, but I care less about how a hard hitting drummer can put so much stage volume out that the vocal mics have just as much drums in them as they have vocals.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I personally GREATLY prefer eDrums; however, most bar bands I know use acoustic drums.

As for modelers vs real tube amps, I am not as certain. 5 years back I would have still bet heavy on tube amps being much more popular; however, I think that modelers/capture units are absolutely becoming more popular quickly.

It isn't like a good tube amp rig is cheap. A used Classic 30 will still run you around $400, then add in a hand full of pedals and a decent mic and you are up to 1K.... and you are left with a fairly inflexible rig compared to a Used Kemper Stage which you can get for the same price.

I mixed for a friend of mine's band a few weeks ago. Acoustic drums with 4 singers out front. When there was no one singing, the drums had the vocal mic's within 5db of where they were when someone WAS singing on them. They definitely need a Plexi booth or shield to sound better. It was mush city out front with no way to get the vocals above the drums.

I don't care for how it looks, but I care less about how a hard hitting drummer can put so much stage volume out that the vocal mics have just as much drums in them as they have vocals.

Were the drums like 3 feet away?
Then obviously they gonna bleed.
But how do you think it was dealt with before silent stages, DI everything and Plexi shields?

Goodie Grateful Dead switching mats

Or here:

Make a Mic Muter

Build a mat that switches your mic on and off when you step on it.

www.premierguitar.com

 

[molul]

I haven't seen any underground band play e-drums live (not that there's no band that does it, just that I haven't seen one) and yet I think it's the right time for that to change.

I wouldn't expect a stadium gig to be played with e-drums, but for small bands playing in small venues where there's no backline, it's just so convenient. Bringing your whole drumkit, mic'ing it, getting it back home... It becomes tiresome at some point (or age) if you don't have a crew to do that job for you.

I mean, if guitarists are benefiting from switching to a floor modeler, I don't see why drummers wouldn't start making a similar move. If I were a drummer, I would totally go that road.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yeah, I agree, but if you are talking about overall popularity, a TON of popular modern music doesn’t have a human playing an acoustic drum kit.

A ton, yes. The majority of big popular modern music acts still have real drums on stage, usually enhanced with trigger mics.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Drummers are mostly worried about looking silly to other drummers so they cart their kits everywhere. An Ekit with a stick and sub speaker system directly behind the drummer would be way more appropriate most places, lol.

 

[Orvillain]

I have a lot of experience working in the field of e-kits and drum samples, and honestly, I'd say samples are great for augmentation in a live context. But I'd never use an e-kit live. It has nothing to do with not wanting to look silly, and nothing to do with feeling inferior, and everything to do with e-kits simply don't sound as good as real drumkits, yes even in 2025. Also, e-kits are a huge pain to setup and dial in correctly for playability, that you'd end up destroying back to back soundchecks at your typical rockshow, as drummers dialed in velocity sensitivity settings, hihat calibration, and all the rest of it.

E-kits work splendidly in:
- Churches
- Schools
- Musical theatre
- Home production environments
- Studio environments

I'm extremely skeptical of their applicability to your typical small to mid rock-venue.

There are a lot of bands (like Tesseract for example) who release music without any real acoustic drum recordings on there, and all entirely VST based drums. But they gig and tour with real drums for a reason.


The applicability of modelling tech is far far higher for guitars than for drums, in most musical contexts.

 

[Deleted member 490]

I have a lot of experience working in the field of e-kits and drum samples, and honestly, I'd say samples are great for augmentation in a live context. But I'd never use an e-kit live. It has nothing to do with not wanting to look silly, and nothing to do with feeling inferior, and everything to do with e-kits simply don't sound as good as real drumkits, yes even in 2025. Also, e-kits are a huge pain to setup and dial in correctly for playability, that you'd end up destroying back to back soundchecks at your typical rockshow, as drummers dialed in velocity sensitivity settings, hihat calibration, and all the rest of it.

E-kits work splendidly in:
- Churches
- Schools
- Musical theatre
- Home production environments
- Studio environments

I'm extremely skeptical of their applicability to your typical small to mid rock-venue.

There are a lot of bands (like Tesseract for example) who release music without any real acoustic drum recordings on there, and all entirely VST based drums. But they gig and tour with real drums for a reason.


The applicability of modelling tech is far far higher for guitars than for drums, in most musical contexts.

This 100%. E-drums still have a long way to go in sounding and feeling realistic, even the most expensive ones. And tweaking the velocity to your liking is a real nightmare.

Basically the main reason for that is that there's one big difference between amp/fx modeling and drums modeling.
Guitars you plug in a modeler are still real guitars, the same ones we've been playing for 70+ years, it's just their signal that is processed.
For edrums the instrument itself is different to play (unless you use triggers on a real drum kit) and the signal is simply replaced by samples.
But since you can't have infinite samples, mesh/pad zones and velocity values, the variety of sounds you can get is greatly reduced and the "feedback" you get from the instrument is altered.

Basically e-drums are the equivalent of using any kind of guitar-to-midi conversion to play guitar samples... No way it will have the same expressivity you get out of a normal guitar (even though midi 2.0 has the potential to make this a lot better)

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

This 100%. E-drums still have a long way to go in sounding and feeling realistic, even the most expensive ones. And tweaking the velocity to your liking is a real nightmare.

Basically the main reason for that is that there's one big difference between amp/fx modeling and drums modeling.
Guitars you plug in a modeler are still real guitars, the same ones we've been playing for 70+ years, it's just their signal that is processed.
For edrums the instrument itself is different to play (unless you use triggers on a real drum kit) and the signal is simply replaced by samples.
But since you can't have infinite samples, mesh/pad zones and velocity values, the variety of sounds you can get is greatly reduced and the "feedback" you get from the instrument is altered.

Basically e-drums are the equivalent of using any kind of guitar-to-midi conversion to play guitar samples... No way it will have the same expressivity you get out of a normal guitar (even though midi 2.0 has the potential to make this a lot better)

The sound absolutely real. I mean how many releases these days are the original recorded drums instead of replaced or stacked samples.

And that was very much the same for amp Modeling. It finally got to acceptable sonically and then it was the race to feel reeler.

But it’s not that modellers suddenly did that better we just got used to playing into loads and IRs into IEMs. None of this is remotely as fun as cranking an amp.

All the amp in the room discussion, run your digi box into a power amp and guitar cabs.
Or line 6 when they stuck tubes into the SV.
Atomic Reactor with the 6L6s etc.
all of this is literally exactly like drummers and ekits…less fun, more convienient.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I think soundwise, e-drums can be fine for the most part. But it's the input medium that just isn't working too well in many situations, possibly most notable with hihats (especially as they're an integral part of many grooves). Even I (a miserable drum hack with 10 drum lessons on my belt that I only took ages ago to get an idea of how to program drums) realize instantly just how different a rubber hihat feels, especially on delicate things such as semi opened hats. And obviously, things such as different sticks (standard, rods, brushes) aren't represented too well, either, regardless of how well the mesh heads do. Then add advanced things such as manual cymbal damping and you're good for yet some more unpleasant surprises.

For guitar players, going digital doesn't change even half as much regarding the feel, simply because the input medium will still be the very same thing, and at least with decent modeling the dynamic interaction is pretty much the same, too.

Basically e-drums are the equivalent of using any kind of guitar-to-midi conversion to play guitar samples...

While drum-to-MIDI certainly is somewhat less of an issue, that's still a pretty good comparison.

Seriously, I have a lot of respect for drummers going digital and actually even enjoying it.

 

[molul]

This 100%. E-drums still have a long way to go in sounding and feeling realistic, even the most expensive ones.

Sound: not what I've seen. The most expensive could be indistinguible on blind tests. And if you're not happy with the stock samples, you can use a VST like Superior Drummer.

Regarding feel: I wouldn't expect e-drums to eventually feel like an acoustic set. You say that while you're playing through amp simulation you still have an electric guitar. What about comparing electric and acoustic guitars? Similar instruments, but different animals and no one expects electric guitars to to feel like acoustics (they can sound like acoustics though).

I mean, it's ok if e-drums feel like e-drums only. If they're comfortable to play, you have them properly configured at home or rehearsal place, and the samples are good, you can make a great performance. And you can bring non acoustic sounds to the table.

I wouldn't see it as a 100% replacement but as a totally acceptable alternative.

Think about an acoustic piano vs a Nord Electro. Keys don't feel the same at all, yet the sound is great, it just works, and you can bring other sounds that are not piano.

The only problem with e-drums is that a really good kit starts from 2500? 3500? You have to be sure you'll really use it.

 

[Jarick]

Yep.

The thing is, and something that links back to what I think @Jarick was trying to get across, about people projecting their ways of working onto others; the reality is... there's a lot of different ways to get the job done; to make music. A heckuva lot of music isn't even written by bands 'playing' instruments; even rock stuff.

What’s sad is we’ve been listening to electronic drums and samples so long that many people wouldn’t even like the sound of a real drummer playing real drums.

Hell I was a drummer growing up and it was my biggest passion. I wanted to go to music school and somehow make a living with drums. But I haven’t touched a kit in years and honestly would rather program drums with samples today.

 

[Deleted member 490]

The sound absolutely real. I mean how many releases these days are the original recorded drums instead of replaced or stacked samples.

I think you didn't get my point. They sound real on a record because those samples still come from real drums, so no surprise they sound real, and thru automations, randomizers and all that stuff you can get a lot of expressivity too.
And at that point you don't even need to play a kit, just program it in a DAW.

But all that doesn't really apply when you play the actual instrument. Firstly cuz most e-drums sound modules are not nearly as powerful/versatile as plugins like superior drummer.
Secondly, cuz the instrument itself is limited compared to real drums.
Take a ride cymbal for example, most cymbal pads have 2 or 3 zones at most, a real one has basically an infinite number of zones instead, you can get a ton of different sounds just by moving the tip of your stick by 1 cm on its surface or even by changing the angle at which you hit it.
That's simply not replicable with a pad.

PS: and that's just one example, cuz a lot others come to mind. E.g. if you hit twice in fast succession a real drum/cymbal, the second time the sound is different than the first one cuz the head/cymbal is still ringing and the second hit stops it and somewhat interferes with that. With samples, you just get the same sample twice, and sometimes it doesn't even stop the first one when the second starts.
Or just hear what happens when you make the stick bounce on a snare and how hard that's to replicate with an edrum.

I mean, even a guitar sample will sound realistic on a record, but I bet you'd never play a guitar by converting its signal to midi to then play guitar samples thru a VSTi, right?

 

[Deleted member 490]

Sound: not what I've seen. The most expensive could be indistinguible on blind tests. And if you're not happy with the stock samples, you can use a VST like Superior Drummer.

Regarding feel: I wouldn't expect e-drums to eventually feel like an acoustic set. You say that while you're playing through amp simulation you still have an electric guitar. What about comparing electric and acoustic guitars? Similar instruments, but different animals and no one expects electric guitars to to feel like acoustics (they can sound like acoustics though).

I mean, it's ok if e-drums feel like e-drums only. If they're comfortable to play, you have them properly configured at home or rehearsal place, and the samples are good, you can make a great performance. And you can bring non acoustic sounds to the table.

I wouldn't see it as a 100% replacement but as a totally acceptable alternative.

Think about an acoustic piano vs a Nord Electro. Keys don't feel the same at all, yet the sound is great, it just works, and you can bring other sounds that are not piano.

The only problem with e-drums is that a really good kit starts from 2500? 3500? You have to be sure you'll really use it.

I think the same reply I gave in the post above applies here as well.

Anyway, a keyboard is a lot more easy to make it behave like a real piano than e-drums like real drums, just make the keys with the same weight, carefully calibrate the velocity and you're basically done.