Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Ed DeGenaro]

It depends what type gig doesn’t it?

Some can play an entire set with a single combo amp, guitar and a clip on tuner. In that case a Tonex One and a CLR or FR-12 will replace it just fine. If you are in a cover band/wedding band/whatever where there is an expectation for a wider variety of tones and effects, a Tonex One isn’t the right tool unless it is part of a larger pedal board.

If you are playing shoe gaze, you aren’t going to be happy with Tonex reverbs and maybe not even Helix. If you are adding a touch of reverb for a blues band or jam band, Tonex verbs might be perfectly fine.

It depends on the genre, context, and preference of the guitarist, but sometimes a basic rig is more than enough. Sometimes you need/want a lot more. We aren’t all the same.

Want? Mosdef
Need? Lol

 

[LP59]

So that’s the hill you’re willing to die on

I don't know where that's coming from. If you're trying to find somebody to argue with, you'll have to look elsewhere. I have no interest in getting in the middle of any of the fights in this thread.

 

[Chocol8]

Need? Lol

Yes, there are some types of music where you definitely need more than a simple rig. Just because you (and I) don’t play them, doesn’t mean they aren’t valid.

 

[OneEng]

You seem to have no clue how the vast majority of musicians use gear.

The effects are basically a free add-on which allows the device to stand alone for things like practice at home, casual jams, rehearsals, or even small gigs where a full high quality rig is completely unnecessary. Tonex was never meant to replace a full rig for studio or major live use. That’s pretty obvious.

LOL. "Most" musicians use a tube amp and a pedal board.

If you limit the discussion to musicians that have decided against a tube amp, you can then divide it into all-in-one vs pedal board. Few people will consider a full size Kemper as part of a pedal board so lets take that out of the discussion.

For all-in-one, my contention is that Kemper is far superior to Tonex .... but it is a silly argument as I have stated. Tonex just isn't the right tool to do all-in-one with. Can you DO it? Sure. You can play a gig with a guitar and a single channel amp, but that isn't what we are talking about in a Kemper MK2 thread.

Tonex plus a VP4 or Tonex plus one of several Helix devices makes an all in 2 solution that IMHO is a major step up from Kemper as an all in one.

Can you go from a clean with a delay to a distorted sound and back again with spill over? It isn't a major step up in many respects. In fact, the only one I can think of is capture accuracy. It pretty much gets clobbered everywhere else.

For many people, the "everywhere else" is much more important.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I don’t know, playing shows and working a variety of shows over the last 5 years I’d say I’ve seen just about everything BESIDES tube amps more often.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Yes, there are some types of music where you definitely need more than a simple rig. Just because you (and I) don’t play them, doesn’t mean they aren’t valid.

I didn’t say they aren’t. I’m saying we want stuff way more than we need.

I’m the poster boy for that.

But the reality is that pretty much all the available these days is good enough to make music with.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I don’t know, playing shows and working a variety of shows over the last 5 years I’d say I’ve seen just about everything BESIDES tube amps more often.

That’s also very location dependent. The amps vs modellers ratio in say India is skewed to almost all digi boxes, where in Germany you find lots of mixed stuff.

 

[ian_dissonance]

That’s also very location dependent. The amps vs modellers ratio in say India is skewed to almost all digi boxes, where in Germany you find lots of mixed stuff.

It’s also genre, too. Even on local shows 75% of bands are running some sort production/IEM setup where modeling or a preamp/IR/pedals rig just makes more sense when you’re not going to get an hour to check everything 3 hours before doors.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Tonex plus a VP4 or Tonex plus one of several Helix devices makes an all in 2 solution that IMHO is a major step up from Kemper as an all in one.

Doesn’t our favorite game changer @nicolasrivera run a ToneX + VP4?

 

[paisleywookiee]

It pretty much gets clobbered everywhere else.

Except effects quality, where Kemper gets clobbered by a VP4.

 

[nicolasrivera]

Doesn’t our favorite game changer @nicolasrivera run a ToneX + VP4?

Yes i do!

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Except effects quality, where Kemper gets clobbered by a VP4.

For that money and limited blocks I’d rather use a H90. And that’s were we back to the start.
I can happily run a Player by itself, even more so with the Kone Kab then Tonex with H90.

But when we talking small board Tonex, with ODs, comp and Halo in front, and 2290p or 3000evh and golden after I’ll take that.

 

[paisleywookiee]

For that money and limited blocks I’d rather use a H90. And that’s were we back to the start.
I can happily run a Player by itself, even more so with the Kone Kab then Tonex with H90.

But when we talking small board Tonex, with ODs, comp and Halo in front, and 2290p or 3000evh and golden after I’ll take that.

If you like the Kemper effects, and you’ve ponied up for the upgrades, then great. I neither like their current effects, nor would I pay $900 for a Player. At that rate, a Kemper floor or a Fractal FM3T is a way better bet. IMO. But we’re just discussing preferences at this point.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

If you like the Kemper effects, and you’ve ponied up for the upgrades, then great. I neither like their current effects, nor would I pay $900 for a Player. At that rate, a Kemper floor or a Fractal FM3T is a way better bet. IMO

I thought I was pretty clear that my interest in going back to Fractal is lower than Orvillian going back to Kemper.

And yes I like the Kemper fx well enough for an all in one box.
That said there’s none of those I’d take over my plugins.
Let alone old hardware.

I considered the stage but I got into the Player because of its size and as a grab and go thing it’s pretty awesome. Since I got the Kemper shortly after it came out and the upgrade a lot later I viewed it as no different than the yearly taxation from Steinberg or Avid.
Plus I can’t butch since whatever mk2 will bring profiling wise it’ll run on it.


But keep in mind here I paid like 800€ for a lvl3, a FM3T is 1400€.
So if you wanna talk about value, that ain’t it.

Funnily the US pricing is way closer with lvl3 player being like 120$ less.

 

[Jarick]

Except effects quality, where Kemper gets clobbered by a VP4.

VP4 looks neat but I wish it was a little more like the HX Stomp. Having a couple extra switches with more effects blocks and integrated amp channel switching all in one unit would be killer in 4CM with an amp. I think I just have to bite the bullet and track down one of those Suhr Micro Midi switchers and put that in the loop of the Fractal with the JJ Junior.

Actually today I'm really enjoying the heck out of my HX Stomp using the OX Stomp in the loop to give substantially better sounding cabs.

HX Stomp + OX Stomp = HOX Stomp Squared?

 

[Richard_G]

I think one of the main differences in the way guys like @OneEng and me view Kemper, is that I consider the main/important aspect of Kemper’s products to be profiling/capturing real amps realistically, while he/they consider the main/important aspect of their products to be a good all-in-one-solution. That’s fair enough I guess, in that our priorities and reasons for considering the products in question differ.

I also believe both @OneEng and me had hopes and expectations that the next generation of products from Kemper would be a significant improvement, and that the Mk II thus far is a disappointment. I guess (but I’m not sure) we both are kind of worried by the fact that Kemper already has been backtracking a bit on the promises of what the new profiling will be able to deliver. And I am (@OneEng may not be) a bit worried about Kemper’s future in the market place.

That said; if I wanted the best all-in-one digital solution, I’d still look elsewhere first. To me, pretty much all the different Fractal all-in-one products are more attractive than what could be considered the Kemper counterparts. I’d also choose the Helix floor over pretty much any Kemper product in this regard.

If I were allowed to have two units, I’d prefer a Tonex/Dimehead + Fractal VP4 solution over any Kemper product.

Being free to have as many units I want on a board… - well, that’s pretty much where I am these days and theres no Kemper in sight.

But that’s just me and my preferences.

Btw; I don’t think I’ve crossed any lines with my contributions to the discussion in this thread. But I’m sorry if I have offended anyone or reduced their enjoyment of TGF. That has not been my intention.

 

[Chocol8]

LOL. "Most" musicians use a tube amp and a pedal board.

LOL, what decade are you stuck in?

 

[DrewJD82]

This is kind of where I am as well. I suspect that I would like the way the 1st clip sat in the mix better than the 2nd .... but that is because the mids were a bit more pronounced. The truth is, after a little channel eq on the mixer, both of them would sound great (I am a big Mesa Mark IIc fan).

There's no way of knowing how it would sound in a mix without it being IN a mix, that's 100% contextual to what else is going on in the mix itself. Where everything compounds quickly in a mix, especially when you start double-quad tracking guitars, anything that's compressed-sounding going in is going to sound that much more compressed in the final result. With clip 1's compressed upper mids, if those got stacked with another track of the same the upper mids would smear and lose definition.

And I suspect what I'm hearing in a lot of ToneTalk episodes when Dave Friedman starts shitting on modeling, or even some of the producers they've had on, with "Modelers just don't sit the same way an amp does" is specifically because of things like specific areas being compressed in a modeler where they wouldn't be in an amp. This is also the reason I started dialing in my tones to sound as close to a raw amp in the room as possible, because it's REALLY easy to dial in what you want to hear right away, rather than what you need to have in the tracks so it creates what you want to hear with the rest of the instruments and then the mastering chain, which is going to compress it even more.

 

[paisleywookiee]

But we’re just discussing preferences at this point.

I thought I was pretty clear that my interest in going back to Fractal is lower than Orvillian going back to Kemper.

Yup, that’s why I said the above.

I considered the stage but I got into the Player because of its size and as a grab and go thing it’s pretty awesome. Since I got the Kemper shortly after it came out and the upgrade a lot later I viewed it as no different than the yearly taxation from Steinberg or Avid.
Plus I can’t butch since whatever mk2 will bring profiling wise it’ll run on it.


But keep in mind here I paid like 800€ for a lvl3, a FM3T is 1400€.
So if you wanna talk about value, that ain’t it.

Funnily the US pricing is way closer with lvl3 player being like 120$ less.

In the US, the FM3T is $1099 ($999 this weekend). The lvl3 upgrade is $929 total.

 

[Jarick]

I think one of the main differences in the way guys like @OneEng and me view Kemper, is that I consider the main/important aspect of Kemper’s products to be profiling/capturing real amps realistically, while he/they consider the main/important aspect of their products to be a good all-in-one-solution. That’s fair enough I guess, in that our priorities and reasons for considering the products in question differ.

I also believe both @OneEng and me had hopes and expectations that the next generation of products from Kemper would be a significant improvement, and that the Mk II thus far is a disappointment. I guess (but I’m not sure) we both are kind of worried by the fact that Kemper already has been backtracking a bit on the promises of what the new profiling will be able to deliver. And I am (@OneEng may not be) a bit worried about Kemper’s future in the market place.

That said; if I wanted the best all-in-one digital solution, I’d still look elsewhere first. To me, pretty much all the different Fractal all-in-one products are more attractive than what could be considered the Kemper counterparts. I’d also choose the Helix floor over pretty much any Kemper product in this regard.

If I were allowed to have two units, I’d prefer a Tonex/Dimehead + Fractal VP4 solution over any Kemper product.

Being free to have as many units I want on a board… - well, that’s pretty much where I am these days and theres no Kemper in sight.

But that’s just me and my preferences.

Btw; I don’t think I’ve crossed any lines with my contributions to the discussion in this thread. But I’m sorry if I have offended anyone or reduced their enjoyment of TGF. That has not been my intention.

Of the million different combinations of random crap I have laying around, I think if I were doing two units it would be an HX Stomp XL or HX Effects with either a Friedman IR-D/IR-X/IR-J or maybe even the UAD Lion. I like the simpler WYSIWYG amps and the HX stuff is super easy to use. I could pretty easily get all that dialed in from scratch with no computer.