Kemper Profiler MK 2

[nicolasrivera]

Tonex, Kemper, QC, and Proxy all COULD be "better" than NAM as far as accuracy, but they may not choose to, other than maybe improvements in capturing high gain. They are all currently significantly better than NAM as far as hardware efficiency and that is going to remain a big deal for hardware use, especially when you consider captured drives in front of captured amps, and multiple signal paths of each. A device that can run 6-8 Tonex of Brand X captures will have a big advantage over a device that can only run 1-2 NAM captures. I could see most hardware oriented vendors being siloing to give up a couple db in null test accuracy in order to maximize utility. That is NAM's Achilles heel.

$80 units now support NAM files. NAM is becoming the standard more rapidly than any other tech in the past 20 years

 

[molul]

An even bigger impact would be if Proxy captures can be played on existing Helix devices and Helix Native, even if you need a Stadium to do captures. That would give capture vendors a huge install base to sell to, and that could immediately be more appealing and profitable than making new Kemper or new QC captures, and maybe even Tonex.

It depends on how much DSP intensive Proxy captures end up being, but yeah, I could see Line6 adding that to current Helix devices, as the last feature to boost sales.

 

[Orvillain]

Where did you matriculate into this discussion from anyway? I don't need to justify what I consider important to an internet Richard Cranium poster. I'll vote with my $$$, you vote with yours.

Nah, I'm The King. You need to justify yourself. Do it. Now.

 

[DrewJD82]

Mod Drew—-

In an effort to keep the peace around here and not have pages and pages of derailment for the people actually excited about this gear, I’m doing a little test by using 2 different threads for the same brand/product. The one here shall remain in place and is for Kemper enthusiasts to talk about the MK2 without me or Orvillian shitting on it or Kemper in the process.

@OneEng and @Orvillain, I’d suggest moving your debate here-

https://thegearforum.com/threads/the-kemper-rant-thread.9207/

If I continue to shit on Kemper here, the other mods have permission to thread ban me (or anyone else…..Orvie, you little slut) from this one.

 

[Orvillain]

No debate from me. I'll stick to this thread though, thanks.

 

[Orvillain]

It isn't even close to being true that NAM is a standard. It is an open source project that someone built to learn how to do something like that. Steve is now branching off into closed-source work, and I would expect his parametric approach to be utilised by more and more companies in the future.

But I don't really expect the open-source side of NAM to gain much traction or see any real tech improvements going forward - IMHO.

 

[DrewJD82]

No debate from me. I'll stick to this thread though, thanks.

Not if you’re going to keep shitting in it the same way we have been.

 

[Orvillain]

Not if you’re going to keep shitting in it the same way we have been.

I've not been doing that. I've been expressing informed opinions and logical conclusions, with a side of eye-wink banter.

If you want to thread ban me, cool. I'll take my business elsewhere if I'm not wanted.

But I would remind you that multiple times on the forum now you've outright attacked me, and if I didn't respect you and knew you were kidding around (calling me a slut, calling me a cunt, etc etc) I could certainly take it in a completely different way than I have been doing.

You even triggered a certain amount of other people doing the same thing; people I don't have a somewhat friendship relationship with. So maybe reflect on that - because nothing I've done in this thread reaches the same level of pile-on. I just ignored it, coz hey... life is too short, but if we're now going to start tone policing, then I think I'll bring it up.

 

[DrewJD82]

I've not been doing that. I've been expressing informed opinions and logical conclusions, with a side of eye-wink banter.

If you want to thread ban me, cool. I'll take my business elsewhere if I'm not wanted.

But I would remind you that multiple times on the forum now you've outright attacked me, and if I didn't respect you and knew you were kidding around (calling me a slut, calling me a cunt, etc etc) I could certainly take it in a completely different way than I have been doing.

You even triggered a certain amount of other people doing the same thing; people I don't have a somewhat friendship relationship with. So maybe reflect on that - because nothing I've done in this thread reaches the same level of pile-on. I just ignored it, coz hey... life is too short, but if we're now going to start tone policing, then I think I'll bring it up.

For fuck’s sake dude, you can’t be jokey guy 99.8% of the time then stop being jokey guy the .2% time I bust your balls about something. You don’t HAVE to be a contrarian 100% of the time.

 

[Orvillain]

For fuck’s sake dude, you can’t be jokey guy 99.8% of the time then stop being jokey guy the .2% time

But you can huh??

Rules for thee, and not for me.

Cool. Gotcha.

It isn't contrarian to point out your false equivalency. My conduct in this thread - whilst often being close to the bone - has not been on the same level as calling someone a cunt. And if you go back and look through, I'm nearly always making serious points about DSP and programming, product design, and market positioning.

I simply don't accept your characterization of my conduct.

 

[DrewJD82]

But you can huh??

Rules for thee, and not for me.

Cool. Gotcha.

If I continue to shit on Kemper here, the other mods have permission to thread ban me (or anyone else…..Orvie, you little slut) from this one.

Sometimes I do have to be a moderator. Not often and it’d sure as fuck be easier if people just saw that I’m not trying to ruin anyone’s “fun” by taking offense over stupid shit every goddamn time I have to do anything related to moderation.

 

[OneEng]

If I reword it, I'd say "The person who absolutely does not want their tone to change because they are in a middle of an album recording or on tour etc". They can choose when they make those updates, if ever.

I believe that there are plenty of people that want to be able to update their device to get bug fixes and new features and ALSO keep their tone on existing rigs exactly like it was. That is ITSELF a feature. Kemper has it, many do not.

Will MK1 users want to pay for all these MK2 profiles? Because I can bet that it's not financially worth it for MBritt or whoever to just offer MK2 versions of profiles people have paid for already. They want to get some money for the new ones.

MK1 fans are probably already happy with the tones they've got, so it will heavily depend on how good MK2 profiles are.

I think plenty of the MK1 users will pay for the update "sight unseen". If the new profiling has even a WIFF of sounding better in anyway, then nearly every Kemper MK1 user will pay for the update.

From a personal standpoint, I have spent SOOOO little on my Kemper vs. what I used to spend on changing my tube amp rig and pedal board that I feel like I am not properly supporting my GAS .

Tonex, Kemper, QC, and Proxy all COULD be "better" than NAM as far as accuracy, but they may not choose to, other than maybe improvements in capturing high gain. They are all currently significantly better than NAM as far as hardware efficiency and that is going to remain a big deal for hardware use, especially when you consider captured drives in front of captured amps, and multiple signal paths of each. A device that can run 6-8 Tonex of Brand X captures will have a big advantage over a device that can only run 1-2 NAM captures. I could see most hardware oriented vendors being siloing to give up a couple db in null test accuracy in order to maximize utility. That is NAM's Achilles heel.

I agree. For people that play live, the hardware and gig process is more important than the accuracy (within reason).

It's honestly pretty soul sucking work. First you need to figure out what settings/levels etc makes the best result...then might need to do it all over again for a different channel depending on the platform.

It's cool when you have a well working capture but getting there makes me just not want to do it at all.

I buy my profiles, then tweak them to my liking. One of my favorites was even free (a couple of them actually).

@OneEng and @Orvillain, I’d suggest moving your debate here-

I completely agree that such discourse derails the thread topic. I'll try to act a little more like an adult and avoid the bait.

 

[Dimiguitar]

I buy my profiles, then tweak them to my liking. One of my favorites was even free (a couple of them actually).

Most of the time, I made my own profiles to use with Kemper. It just ended up quicker to create them than hope to find something that will fit my guitar, tuning, style, taste. Tweaking didn't work well for me either (this was before liquid profiling), but obviously others have different experiences.

All that said, some of my favourite tones ever have been free profiles. One of them is Morgan AC20 by rmpacheco, well known for a while. There's also others, like a sinmix one of a Bugera. I had trouble emulating this on my fm3 but eventually got there via EQ matching.

I think the variety of profiles available for Kemper far exceed in volume what other capture-capable devices have, and MKII obviously can load these profiles.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Look, you're really really really offended for some reason. I don't know why, but you might want to fucking grow the fuck up. Your feelings aren't my responsibility. I will post whatever I want, whenever I want, at whatever frequency I want. There isn't a damn fucking thing you can do about it.

 

[OneEng]

All that said, some of my favourite tones ever have been free profiles. One of them is Morgan AC20 by rmpacheco, well known for a while.

YEP! That's one of them. I have it in a few configurations for different gains and different efx on it. Absolutely love that profile.

While better profiling may capture some better sounds in the future, I have serious doubts that anything I will play in the future will make me feel like the Morgan AC20 by rmpacheco DOESN'T sound good anymore.

This is the kind of example I use when people make sweeping claims that Kemper is not capable of sounding great.... but I get it. If you purchased the Kemper with the belief that it would better capture your amp than other gear will, you could be understandably disappointed. I captured my VHT and my BF before I sold them. Truth be told, I never use the profiles I created as I have found better sounding profiles that others have done that I greatly prefer.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Kemper can probably do just fine selling the same units to the more utilitarian areas; touring guys and studio guys who have zero interest in the minute details and just need it to do what they know it can do, over and over again.

Yes, since the hobbyists really know tone. Lol

 

[Antipodes]

It isn't even close to being true that NAM is a standard. It is an open source project that someone built to learn how to do something like that. Steve is now branching off into closed-source work, and I would expect his parametric approach to be utilised by more and more companies in the future.

But I don't really expect the open-source side of NAM to gain much traction or see any real tech improvements going forward - IMHO.

Interesting. So is the close source direction likely to be a commercial product or will it remain free and be licenced to other companies? Is there somewhere where he has stated his intentions for NAM recently online or is this something that comes up when other industry players meet him at NAM or wherever?

 

[Orvillain]

Interesting. So is the close source direction likely to be a commercial product or will it remain free and be licenced to other companies? Is there somewhere where he has stated his intentions for NAM recently online or is this something that comes up when other industry players meet him at NAM or wherever?

I don't know, I'm just putting 2 and 2 together, and possibly coming up with 5. But my contributions aren't wanted here anyway, I'm out.

 

[Deleted member 490]

I don't know, I'm just putting 2 and 2 together, and possibly coming up with 5. But my contributions aren't wanted here anyway, I'm out.

Sorry, couldn't resist to score this empty-net goal

 

[hunter]

I had band audition with my Kemper but didn't get the gig cause I didn't pass the null test
...
said no one ever ...