Kemper Profiler MK 2

[LP59]

Wow, didn't know that. Then what does mk2 actually provide now that mk1 didn't have? More effects blocks?

It has more effects blocks, but these new effects are limited. There are only a few effects available, mostly ones that use little cpu, and they are simplified, both in terms of what they can do and where they can go.

Also, the boot times are faster for the toaster. Stage boot times are about the same though.

I doubt anybody is rushing out to replace their Mk1 with a Mk2 at this point.

 

[JiveTurkey]

And from what I can tell from the video, they are stripped down versions of the originals in some cases.

Can't move them? What is this? 2003?

I somehow missed the fixed block addition. No idea why people are complaining.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Hush! You'll make GT-1000 cry!

Pretty sure you can put the blocks wherever you want on the GT-1000.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Hush! You'll make GT-1000 cry!

 

[Lysander]

Pretty sure you can put the blocks wherever you want on the GT-1000.

I thought some GT-1000 blocks where fixed in place, depending on the signal path?

 

[ian_dissonance]

I thought some GT-1000 blocks where fixed in place, depending on the signal path?

They’re all always in the path, but you can move them around and reorder them.

 

[Tanax]

Why is it weird to be open minded to go back and try a thing just to double check yourself?

I'd actually say that is exactly the kind of open-mindedness and experimental nature that we could do with seeing more of in the world.

I've owned 2 Quad Cortexes, 2 Axe FX II's, 2 Axe FX III's, 3 Helix's, as well. If you want a laugh, go and see what I was saying about the Axe FX II back in the day!! I was very hot and cold on it.

The true story is - I went back to the Kemper, because throughout the time period between 2011-2021, I second guessed myself a lot when it came to the Kemper. "Was I being too harsh? Maybe I didn’t profile the right amp. Maybe I didn’t use it 'right.'"

And pretty much every single time I confirmed it to myself - "Nope. Still don't like it."

- I wanted to like it.
- I gave it multiple chances.
- But I didn't fall for hype.
- I didn't fall for sunk-cost bias.
- I now have a fully informed and rock solid opinion, based on real world data.

For me, the gear is part of the journey. I've always had a core set of expectations, and everything else outside of that is experiment-zone.

I would say in all that time, for modelling gear specifically, the most fun and intuitive unit for me was the Helix. Line6 really gamed the change with that one. I might plug it in today actually, haven't for a while!

I wish I was like that.
I tried AxeFX II Ultra and didn't like it. Sounds were cool, but the way the interface (both the computer and the onboard) worked just didn't agree with me. Who knows, perhaps when the next gen is released, I should give them another try

 

[Mongillo19]

Axe FX II back in the day!! I was very hot and cold on it.

Heck even the III! It's important to be critical of gear while at the same time realizing there is such a thing as too critical. It is a very fine line.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

It is a very fine line.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Kemper changing the marketing from "most presice" to "most powerful" is weird to me. Probably isn't the case, but makes me wonder if someone finally did a null test and the new profiling came up short... Then, knowing people will make null tests -- since that's what people do now -- the text was changed fast.

Their text also says select vendors are testing the new profiling. At least from what I recall, CK had previously said no vendor had reported inaccuracies like the tubescreamer bananza. That was bizzare to me because in private several vendors would agree with me about inaccuracies. I specifically recall one of them calling Kemper a "crybaby plus" after being frustrated trying to profile an EVH amp.

I don't know what happened. Did vendors suddenly care to report stuff to Kemper, did Kemper ask them whether profiling is perfect, does this refer to newer vendors that didn't exist back then (doubtful, most did)... All possibilities.

But I must say having had years of "it's perfect" to now presumably "its perfecter" is funny. Good that it's better, for obvious reasons, but funny, considering the uproar I've seen on Kemper forum previously when tests would show inaccuracies; and also the company's stance that profiling is spot on.

Nowadays things seem different on Kemper forum. Before, there were only a few people making tests. These tests were mostly A/B, ABX blind audio tests. Now it's many people on YouTube, and null tests have become very popular, kinda replacing blind audio tests. Considering all this, I checked Kemper forum and it seems to me the narrative has changed from "it's spot on" to "well, it doesn't matter if it's spot on".

(This isn't to include everybody. Certainly some never minded perfect accuracy, just referring to a perceived general trend).

At any rate. My talk may give people the impression I think Kemper is crap. I think it's always been a very capable device.

Below is a blind test I made years ago. Skip to 4:15 for reveals. I think there's a slight tubescreamer quality to the Kemper sound, but it's not easy for me to discern in this context. But I hope it's what the new profiling fixes, because for me it makes a meaningful difference for feel.

 

[OneEng]

But I must say having had years of "it's perfect" to now presumably "its perfecter" is funny. Good that it's better, for obvious reasons, but funny, considering the uproar I've seen on Kemper forum previously when tests would show inaccuracies; and also the company's stance that profiling is spot on.

I have maintained for over 10 years that Kemper has mis-marketed their device. Sure, at first, they were the only capture device in existence and claimed this to be their unique selling point. Fair enough; however, what everyone missed is the implication of this architecture and its effect on live performers.

Kemper is very well designed for gigging musicians. The fact it doesn't model, but rather "profiles" simply adds to how great it is for this purpose since profiles DON'T change tone from one firmware release to the next.

Kemper's ability to quickly setup sounds for different songs and easily manage them through a gig with the foot controller is its strength IMO.

Kemper seems to be finding it difficult to change their thought pattern from "We are the only one" to "We are best for". The fact that they are leaning into "its perfecter" is emblematic of this IMO.

Now, the big question they should be asking themselves is ......

Would a persona who was highly influenced by a Null test be a good candidate for a Kemper purchase ...... or would other factors (like routing, Ui/Ux glitz, etc) make it unlikely that such a person would buy a Kemper even if a Null test proved beyond doubt that Kemper had the best capture tech?

 

[molul]

If Stadium's Agoura and Proxy stuff is at least as good as Kemper profiles, I can hardly find a reason to choose Kemper Stage mk2, unless they lower the price enough to make you think twice.

The Kemper Rack, toaster and player will still sell well for a while, at least until Stadium Rack and Stomp are announced.

Kemper still has a chance to bring a proper next gen lineup in the next 3-5 years and stay in the game. But they have a lot of work to do.

 

[DrewJD82]

Kemper can probably do just fine selling the same units to the more utilitarian areas; touring guys and studio guys who have zero interest in the minute details and just need it to do what they know it can do, over and over again.

 

[ian_dissonance]

If Stadium's Agoura and Proxy stuff is at least as good as Kemper profiles, I can hardly find a reason to choose Kemper Stage mk2, unless they lower the price enough to make you think twice.

The Kemper Rack, toaster and player will still sell well for a while, at least until Stadium Rack and Stomp are announced.

Kemper still has a chance to bring a proper next gen lineup in the next 3-5 years and stay in the game. But they have a lot of work to do.

If L6 hits the ground running with their version of captures/profiles (and what reason would we have to think they won’t at this point) the value proposition of Kemper is very small for a new buyer without a massive price drop, IMO.

 

[Chocol8]

Would a persona who was highly influenced by a Null test be a good candidate for a Kemper purchase ...... or would other factors (like routing, Ui/Ux glitz, etc) make it unlikely that such a person would buy a Kemper even if a Null test proved beyond doubt that Kemper had the best capture tech?

I think null tests have limited value, but if you change it to listening test, I still think Kemper has a problem. Their new profiling could be as good as NAM and I still wouldn't consider the MKII over a Stadium or FM9 unless the price drops considerably. So yeah, UI/UX and features are going to be more important to a lot of buyers when the sound quality level differences are not very meaningful.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Kemper is very well designed for gigging musicians. The fact it doesn't model, but rather "profiles" simply adds to how great it is for this purpose since profiles DON'T change tone from one firmware release to the next.

Updating fractal firmware has often enough had me re-tweeking. Definitely would not update in the middle of gigging, if there were amp sim changes, as it's hard to predict the results.

At times, I've even gone back to previous firmwares to capture sims with tonex and nam. (For example the fryette deliverance mki sim was removed, with arguably little else to replace it, considering how different the new deliverance sim sounds.)

So I do see positives in the sounds remaining the same even with firmware updates, provided there's new features you want.

Kemper seems to be finding it difficult to change their thought pattern from "We are the only one" to "We are best for". The fact that they are leaning into "its perfecter" is emblematic of this IMO.

I don't know what the right marketing would be for Kemper at this point, really..

 

[JiveTurkey]

If Stadium's Agoura and Proxy stuff is at least as good as Kemper profiles, I can hardly find a reason to choose Kemper Stage mk2, unless they lower the price enough to make you think twice.

The Kemper Rack, toaster and player will still sell well for a while, at least until Stadium Rack and Stomp are announced.

Kemper still has a chance to bring a proper next gen lineup in the next 3-5 years and stay in the game. But they have a lot of work to do.

Are you one of those people who has only ever used a Helix?

 

[Orvillain]

I have maintained for over 10 years that Kemper has mis-marketed their device.

Everyone else seems to get it, whether they like the unit or not. You're the one who doesn't get the actual and verifiable USP of the Kemper.

 

[laxu]

The fact it doesn't model, but rather "profiles" simply adds to how great it is for this purpose since profiles DON'T change tone from one firmware release to the next.

You make this sound like a much bigger deal than it is. No modeler on the market to my knowledge auto-updates itself. So anyone who cares about keeping the same sounds can simply avoid updating.

Even if you update regularly...only a fraction of the modeling updates drastically alter any sounds requiring you to redial things.

You could also approach profiles from the other point of view and consider their immutability to be a weakness where they don't get better but you need to make new profiles if there are improvements to the tech.

We are likely to see this for Kemper MK2 where many paid profile vendors will have to sell new packs to make updating all their profiles worth the time and effort it requires.

 

[riffy]

If MKII does actually profile much better, who is going to still be buying the old profiles?
I know I would not. I would sell my toaster or stage and buy a much less expensive player
and get newer higher quality profiles for it.