Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Richard_G]

Good for you. Enjoy!

 

[Dimiguitar]

Does it sound good? Yes.
Does it feel good? Yes.
Does it work in real world situations? Yes.
It it cheaper than the competition? In the uk a big yes.
Does it pass a nul test? It doesn’t matter a flying fuck if it passes the other tests.

Null tests don't directly mean that much to me either. But I don't think Kemper simply passes all other tests for me. It depends.

When I profile a source tone with gain, the end result will feel like there's a tubescreamer mixed in, to some level. I don't like this.

NAM doesn't do this (at least anywhere nearly as much), my own tonex captures do not when IK multimedia capturing works right (which is an "if").

On that end, I've done blind feel tests with many, many takes. It's easy to tell what Kemper is. Some other guitarists I've made these tests with prefered the Kemper feel. I do not prefer it, and much of the time (depends somewhat on the source tone) don't like it either.

That's part of why I gravitate to other solutions. But MKII may fix these inaccuracies, which is going to be a big one for some.

 

[Eagle]

Null tests don't directly mean that much to me either. But I don't think Kemper simply passes all other tests. It depends.

When I profile a source tone with gain, the end result will feel like there's a tubescreamer mixed in, to some level. I don't like this.

NAM doesn't do this (at least anywhere nearly as much), my own tonex captures do not when IK multimedia capturing works right (which is an "if").

On that end, I've done blind feel tests with many, many takes. It's easy to tell what Kemper is. Some other guitarists I've made these tests with prefered the Kemper feel. I do not.

That's part of why I gravitate to other solutions. But MKII may fix these inaccuracies, which is going to be a big one for some.

It depends on the tones you are aiming for . The Kemper certainly has its weaknesses but if you’re profiling is of amps that share some of the characteristics of the unit the results can be far better. If you’re in this sweet spot it’s more amp like to play than the rest.

 

[Dimiguitar]

It depends on the tones you are aiming for . The Kemper certainly has its weaknesses but if you’re profiling is of amps that share some of the characteristics of the unit the results can be far better. If you’re in this sweet spot it’s more amp like to play than the rest.

What kind of tones you think are in this sweet spot?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Does it sound good? Yes.
Does it feel good? Yes.

These 2 are debatable, IMO it falls short against the competition pretty massively on both. You’re welcome to disagree, but it’s essentially no different to saying Squier’s or Sire guitars are good enough. I really do not think the Kemper feels good enough, it’s got its own feel that I don’t think often represents the same feel as the amp it’s profiling. Other capture tech retains the original feel much better

 

[Eagle]

What kind of tones you think are in this sweet spot?

Lower gain and clean.

 

[JiveTurkey]

If we're speaking in absolutes; the test it has always needed to pass if it's your amplifier getting profiled is does it sound like the source.

 

[Eagle]

These 2 are debatable, IMO it falls short against the competition pretty massively on both. You’re welcome to disagree, but it’s essentially no different to saying Squier’s or Sire guitars are good enough. I really do not think the Kemper feels good enough, it’s got its own feel that I don’t think often represents the same feel as the amp it’s profiling. Other capture tech retains the original feel much better

I agree they are debatable. The guitar point is not the same because all a guitar amp has to do is sound and feel good to the user. There are endless reasons why a guitar can easily be quantified.
If you are only interested in accuracy of modelling between the KP and the original then yes it falls short but none of the others offer an amp like playing experience even close.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I agree they are debatable. The guitar point is not the same because all a guitar amp has to do is sound and feel good to the user. There are endless reasons why a guitar can easily be quantified.
If you are only interested in accuracy of modelling between the KP and the original then yes it falls short but none of the others offer an amp like playing experience even close.

Yeah, I still think a Kemper sounds and feels like a Kemper rather than like a real amp. It’s enough that it changes how I play. And if you make models of your own gear then you notice it more and more, especially when capturing totally different amps and the models all feel similar to each other.

Hyper accuracy NAM models feel like they’re in a totally different universe, and the latency is lower too.

TBH my main gripe is when mixing guitar tones recorded with a kemper; they just fall apart as soon as you start EQing them. I find that anything that has gone through brute force EQ already doesn’t really take more EQ well, it’s like when people use match EQ and it just sounds weird in the end.

Maybe their updated cab engine will help but I think the overall approach they use just has limitations to it

 

[Dimiguitar]

If you are only interested in accuracy of modelling between the KP and the original then yes it falls short but none of the others offer an amp like playing experience even close.

Do you mean that the inaccuracies make Kemper offer more of an amp-like experience compared to units that more accurately replicate the amp, or am I understanding this wrongly?

 

[Dimiguitar]

Do you mean that the inaccuracies make Kemper offer more of an amp-like experience compared to units that more accurately replicate the amp, or am I understanding this wrongly?

Because if that's the case (excuse me if I am misunderstanding), then not sure what "amp like" experience is?

 

[Eagle]

Yeah, I still think a Kemper sounds and feels like a Kemper rather than like a real amp. It’s enough that it changes how I play. And if you make models of your own gear then you notice it more and more, especially when capturing totally different amps and the models all feel similar to each other.

Hyper accuracy NAM models feel like they’re in a totally different universe, and the latency is lower too.

TBH my main gripe is when mixing guitar tones recorded with a kemper; they just fall apart as soon as you start EQing them. I find that anything that has gone through brute force EQ already doesn’t really take more EQ well, it’s like when people use match EQ and it just sounds weird in the end.

Maybe their updated cab engine will help but I think the overall approach they use just has limitations to it

Once again I agree with all of this. You need to use a profile close to stock or you’re going to have problems. I suspect the closer the profile is to the core engine the more successful the rest is . It certainly handles cleaner end far better than higher gain. I use my VH4 and X88ir for that though. My Kemper and Axe 3 only get lower volume and practice use. My power rack on a EVM Thiele is my portable jam rig.

 

[Eagle]

Because if that's the case (excuse me if I am misunderstanding), then not sure what "amp like" experience is?

Amp like experience is exactly that, like a real amp behind you providing the sound and feedback of a real old school rig. Totally missing from most digital solutions.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Amp like experience is exactly that, like a real amp behind you providing the sound and feedback of a real old school rig. Totally missing from most digital solutions.

So using a cab and power amp? How is that missing from other solutions, provided you use a proper capture/sim, power amp? I would imagine a more accurate capture amplified a similar way to be more "amp like".

 

[Eagle]

So using a cab and power amp? How is that missing from other solutions, provided you use a proper capture/sim, power amp? I would imagine a more accurate capture amplified a similar way to be more "amp like".

No "FRFR" which is usually shit. A power rack and a guitar cab is a reasonable option.

 

[Dimiguitar]

No ""FRFR"" which is usually shit. A power rack and a guitar cab is a reasonable option.

What makes Kemper more "amp-like"?

 

[LP59]

Does it sound good? Yes.
Does it feel good? Yes.
Does it work in real world situations? Yes.
It it cheaper than the competition? In the uk a big yes.
Does it pass a nul test? It doesn’t matter a flying fuck if it passes the other tests.

I think for most people the most important thing for a profiler is: does it sound just like the original amp?

If you want something that sounds good, but doesn't necessarily sound like any real world tube amp, a modeler usually works better than a profiler since it gives you more control over simulated components of an amp.

 

[Jarick]

Probably the biggest reason I've bailed on Kemper previously (and may do so again) is just how profile dependent it is. Especially on the cab side. If the cabs aren't shot very well it could be really muffled or fizzy. Even Michael Britt's profiles are all over the map...early ones were really warm and muffled, then he overcorrected for some and it sounded too thin and honky, although more recent ones seem more balanced. That leads to a profile chase, which is just not fun at all.

I'm really intrigued by DI profiles, especially if the liquid profiling is accurate, combined with a really good cab sim. I'm curious what that new cab sim is that they're touting that's "dynamically adjustable". Could be a push in the low end at a cab resonance frequency that makes it feel more dynamic? I dunno. But that gets really close to the modeling world and maybe then it's just not worth it.

 

[Dimiguitar]

I'm really intrigued by DI profiles, especially if the liquid profiling is accurate, combined with a really good cab sim. I'm curious what that new cab sim is that they're touting that's "dynamically adjustable". Could be a push in the low end at a cab resonance frequency that makes it feel more dynamic? I dunno. But that gets really close to the modeling world and maybe then it's just not worth it.

I've always used DI profiles for more versatility.

 

[Jarick]

I think for most people the most important thing for a profiler is: does it sound just like the original amp?

If you want something that sounds good, but doesn't necessarily sound like any real world tube amp, a modeler usually works better than a profiler since it gives you more control over simulated components of an amp.

It's really funny that we spent over 100 pages on this thread arguing about aliasing and null tests because I don't think the overwhelming majority of guitarists would notice any of that. I think most guitarists would hear the profiles and A/B against their amp and think it sounds really similar. Big time guitarists used the Kemper for tours and sessions because it sounded and felt great.

People aren't moving away from Kemper because of accuracy, but because the competition has improved and offered better products. Quad Cortex has a much better UX in a more compact package, Helix had a much better UX with more effects and now looks to be even better with the Stadium, Fractal has tons of amps and effects all in the box with crazy routing capabilities, Tonex has amp/cab in mini pedals for $150, and NDSP plugins give pro studio sound all on a computer for under $100.

I don't think Kemper Mk2 is going to move the needle for anyone other than hardcore Kemper users which is dwindling.