Kemper Profiler MK 2

[OneEng]

Seems to me no one here but Orvillian has an issue with the OG Kemper, but the majority find the MK2 to be a pretty shitty idea. Just like many found their Tiers to be a shitty idea. Previous to that, I don’t recall seeing anything negative about Kemper unless it came from Orvie and he’s a cunt to begin with.

Seems like mostly a difference of opinion on what matters.

There seems to be a majority on this forum who consider capture accuracy the single most important part of a digital amp. Then there are those in the minority that care more about usability at a gig and overall tone (including efx) .... which mostly could care less if the capture is accurate.

I personally find it endearing that Orvillian adopted my pet name for him. I honestly didn't expect him to get it at all, so he surprised me.

No one is bashing Kemper users, they (we) are bashing Kemper as a company for falling behind in their core technology and offering a rather uninspiring MK2.

I agree that the MK2 as a piece of hardware is uninspiring. I suspect that it was a VERY low cost update that allowed them to call it "MK2" and ring up some sales and media attention prior to the end of the world (ie Stadium announcement).

If Kemper does up their game with the capture accuracy, I see them continuing to have success with the gigging and touring crowd. Kemper is still a rock solid gig machine no matter how you slice it.

My big beef (which I will be totally vocal about) will be if MK1 users are NOT offered an upgrade to the new capabilities of the MK2. Since the DSP has not changed AT ALL, this is completely within Kemper's ability to do. Shoot, I would even be willing to shell out a few hundred to get them. Perhaps this is the big plan all along? New sales of MK2 may not be that great (beyond the previous MK1 sales rate), but imagine if a big percentage of MK1 users all shelled out a few hundred $$ for the upgrade?

 

[nicolasrivera]

But not the users. Unless…..they suck for entirely unrelated reasons, which is totally possible, but outside the scope of this thread.

exactly, just Kemper.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would claim that Kemper sucks. Some people seem to be distracted from reality.

 

[molul]

Seriously this. Quite surprising to see that this thread is more of a shit storm than all Kemper Mk2 threads combined on TheGearPage. I thought this forum prided itself in being better than that place. But repeatedly there are so much bashing on here from people that are not even interested in or would never buy (or haven't even tried) Kemper.

This forum is becoming an echo chamber of promoting only specific products and bashing people who likes other products and it's sad to see.

Are you sure you're not mistaking criticism of a product for criticism of the people who use it?

By far, TGF is one of the less toxic forums I've ever been part of, which is so appreciated in these days where 90% social media (or most forums) comments are direct insults and absolutely no healthy discussions.

I would never dare to criticize someone for having a product I don't feel like buying. And I don't think it's crazy to say that MK2 is disappointing at so many levels.

 

[Tanax]

Are you sure you're not mistaking criticism of a product for criticism of the people who use it?

By far, TGF is one of the less toxic forums I've ever been part of, which is so appreciated in these days where 90% social media (or most forums) comments are direct insults and absolutely no healthy discussions.

I would never dare to criticize someone for having a product I don't feel like buying. And I don't think it's crazy to say that MK2 is disappointing at so many levels.

Thank you for a level headed response. It might very well be. The type of lingo on this forum is obviously not something that makes me feel comfortable posting here, which is why I post very seldom. English is not my native language either so perhaps it's possible that I'm reading things too literally when instead it might be an expression. But when someone says something is bullshit, I take that as very serious. If someone instead says "that's not true", it's more polite.

 

[laxu]

My big beef (which I will be totally vocal about) will be if MK1 users are NOT offered an upgrade to the new capabilities of the MK2. Since the DSP has not changed AT ALL, this is completely within Kemper's ability to do. Shoot, I would even be willing to shell out a few hundred to get them. Perhaps this is the big plan all along? New sales of MK2 may not be that great (beyond the previous MK1 sales rate), but imagine if a big percentage of MK1 users all shelled out a few hundred $$ for the upgrade?

It seems to be a weird situation.

The difference in processors seems to be this:

Device	DSP	Coprocessor 1	Coprocessor 2
Kemper MK1	Motorola/NXP DSP56720 dual core	NXP LPC2468FPD208 72 MHz single core	NXP LPC1768FBD100 100 MHz single core
Kemper Player	Motorola/NXP DSP56720 dual core	NXP LPC4327FET256 204 Mhz dual core Cortex M4	-
Kemper MK2	Motorola/NXP DSP56720 dual core	NXP LPC4327FET256 204 Mhz dual core Cortex M4	NXP LPC1768FBD100?

One recent teardown of a MK1 Toaster showed the display PCB had a NXP LPC1768FBD100 100 MHz processor, so maybe this is what's used for UI and the coprocessor is entirely used for DSP as well?

For reference, the Tonex One uses a NXP MIMXRT1061DVL6B which is a single core Cortex M7 600 MHz. That is already a lot more powerful than the Kemper coprocessor.

Straight clock speed and number of cores (and other architecture differences) don't easily compare as many computing tasks are not possible to parallelize to take advantage of multiple cores.

Maybe Kemper Player has some low power CPU for any UI/footswitch stuff since it does not have a display. It might be hidden under the control board and there's only one teardown of the unit on YT.

I'd guess that the Kemper MK2 coprocessor 1 can be used for e.g those new effects slots, or to offload some of the main DSP's effects processing to the coprocessor. This would give some main DSP CPU headroom for the new modeling.

Whatever the case, it's possible the MK1 won't get the ability to run the upgraded profiles.

Could MK1 units be upgraded to MK2? Yes, it seems that the processor boards are both removable. But it's unlikely that Kemper wants users to open up their MK1s, so I doubt they will offer the parts. Maybe an upgrade service? Who knows. Could you get your own module and flash the right firmware on it? Yes, but that would be more complicated. Maybe if you can get the Kemper to some failsafe mode that lets it rewrite it all.

 

[toneseeker911]

Kemper is carrying too much technical debt, with their assembly coded DSP routines that makes it hard to make any meaningful updates to their hardware. It was probably necessary in 2010 to squeeze performance, they need a full re-write now.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Whatever the case, it's possible the MK1 won't get the ability to run the upgraded profiles.

I'd even take a bet that this won't be the case - regardless of whether it'd be possible. After all, they want to sell their new(-ish) hardware.

 

[LP59]

It seems to be a weird situation.

The difference in processors seems to be this:

Device	DSP	Coprocessor
Kemper Player / Kemper MK2	Motorola/NXP DSP56720 dual core	NXP LPC4337FET256 204 Mhz dual core
Kemper MK1	Motorola/NXP DSP56720 dual core	NXP LPC2468FPD208 72 MHz single core

One recent teardown of a MK1 Toaster showed the display PCB had a NXP LPC1768FBD100 100 MHz processor, so maybe this is what's used for UI and the coprocessor is entirely used for DSP as well.

For reference, the Tonex One uses a NXP MIMXRT1061DVL6B which is a single core 600 MHz.

Straight clock speed and number of cores (and other architecture differences) don't easily compare as many computing tasks are not possible to parallelize to take advantage of multiple cores.

I'd guess that the Kemper MK2 coprocessor can be used for e.g those new effects slots, or to offload some of the main DSP's effects processing to the coprocessor. This would give some main DSP CPU headroom for the new modeling.

Whatever the case, it's possible the MK1 won't get the ability to run the upgraded profiles.

Could MK1 units be upgraded to MK2? Yes, it seems that the processor boards are both removable. But it's unlikely that Kemper wants users to open up their MK1s, so I doubt they will offer the parts. Maybe an upgrade service? Who knows. Could you get your own module and flash the right firmware on it? Yes, but that would be more complicated. Maybe if you can get the Kemper to some failsafe mode that lets it rewrite it all.

Real-time DSP on a 200MHz M4? That seems highly unlikely. That chip is intended for controlling things like thermostats, where very little cpu power is needed. It’s almost certainly just used for management of presets, UI, and I/O.

 

[laxu]

Real-time DSP on a 200MHz M4? That seems highly unlikely. That chip is intended for controlling things like thermostats, where very little cpu power is needed. It’s almost certainly just used for management of presets, UI, and I/O.

I think it could be potentially used for some low cost effects, especially if both cores can be used for DSP. A lot of the new fx slots are utility stuff for example. ARM advertise the M4 for DSP.

But again, total speculation from me so if you know better then by all means educate.

 

[molul]

But when someone says something is bullshit, I take that as very serious. If someone instead says "that's not true", it's more polite.

Aaah, I see. Yep, I think you nailed it there. I'm now very used to the word "bullshit" but I would totally have taken it as quite rude years ago (English is not my native language either).

Seriously, I highly doubt most of the people here means to insult or offend when saying that :-)

 

[Orvillain]

Show me a post where someone bashed another member due to their gear choice. (I’d be willing to bet $10 I’ve been called something along the lines of a Fractal fanboy in here, though)

If this thread is more of a “shitstorm” it’s because we don’t allow members to wipe their tears with a Report button because someone offended them for not liking their modeler of choice, thus entire pages of threads don’t go missing at the click of a button like they do other forums.

Seems to me no one here but Orvillian has an issue with the OG Kemper, but the majority find the MK2 to be a pretty shitty idea. Just like many found their Tiers to be a shitty idea. Previous to that, I don’t recall seeing anything negative about Kemper unless it came from Orvie and he’s a cunt to begin with.

Same thing with the QC thread, no one gets bashed for digging it or using it, but NDSP sure does for the way they do business.

The feigned offense bullshit is tired as fuck.

OG kemper is a bag of wank, but I don't think I've actually judged anyone here for using one. I've never said "bro! ur a nonce! stop using the Kemper!" or anything like that.

 

[Orvillain]

I personally find it endearing that Orvillian adopted my pet name for him. I honestly didn't expect him to get it at all, so he surprised me.

I'm high IQ. Like, at least 84.

 

[Orvillain]

There seems to be a majority on this forum who consider capture accuracy the single most important part of a digital amp. Then there are those in the minority that care more about usability at a gig and overall tone (including efx) .... which mostly could care less if the capture is accurate.

This is just cope.

I and others have said many a' time.... accuracy is important. Not the single most important part of a digital amp though.

Also, just because someone cares about accuracy, doesn't mean they can't or won't care about usability at a gig.

You're just smoking copium because you've had your insides consistently wrecked throughout this thread by everybody.

 

[Orvillain]

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would claim that Kemper sucks. Some people seem to be distracted from reality.

It does suck, and I've outlined my reasoning multiple times throughout the Kemper threads.

This is a holy war for me at this point.

 

[Orvillain]

Thank you for a level headed response. It might very well be. The type of lingo on this forum is obviously not something that makes me feel comfortable posting here, which is why I post very seldom. English is not my native language either so perhaps it's possible that I'm reading things too literally when instead it might be an expression. But when someone says something is bullshit, I take that as very serious. If someone instead says "that's not true", it's more polite.

Not enough bollocks mate.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I and others have said many a' time.... accuracy is important.

I'm neither you nor those others. But you'll know that already.

 

[Sascha Franck]

It does suck, and I've outlined my reasoning multiple times throughout the Kemper threads.

We know you did. And it's still not sufficient.

 

[ejecta]

Yeah, Kemper SUCKS!!!

As much as some guys are into loving their gear that would be a plus.

 

[Orvillain]

We know you did. And it's still not sufficient.

If you smell burning toast, go to the hospital. STAT!