Kemper Profiler MK 2

[LP59]

Wait, even the toaster units are going to require a computer for the new captures?

Just for Mk2 level captures.

This is another way Kemper is shooting themselves in the foot. They've announced this new profiling, but have no name for it. It's "new", but it's not really "Mk2", since that refers to the hardware update, which is not dependent on the new capturing firmware. This has led to confusion in discussions since it's hard to know how to refer to it. Just another sign this is being rushed to market before it's ready.

 

[Mongillo19]

This is another way Kemper is shooting themselves in the foot. They've announced this new profiling, but have no name for it. It's "new", but it's not really "Mk2", since that refers to the hardware update, which is not dependent on the new capturing firmware. This has led to confusion in discussions since it's hard to know how to refer to it. Just another sign this is being rushed to market before it's ready.

In the support email I received they refered to it as "Profiling 2"

 

[paisleywookiee]

In the support email I received they refered to it as "Profiling 2"

I think the official name is Profiling 2: Cruise Control

 

[quadgear]

Time for a new thread: "Kemper Profiler Mk2 - Just the facts"

The signal to noise ratio of this thread is worse than the reverb I built in high school.

 

[Jarick]

Yeah that's why I posted my actual experience with the Player in a different thread. This is more for wild speculation / pile-on.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

Time for a new thread: "Kemper Profiler Mk2 - Just the facts"

The signal to noise ratio of this thread is worse than the reverb I built in high school.

Sir, this is a wendEEs

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

If it craps out below 50 Hz it is perfectly perceptible (if you have speakers able to reproduce those frequencies and if you listen at a high enough volume), even though our ears have reduced sensitivity in that band, but the k-weighting in the LUFS measurement roughly takes care of that.

If it craps out above 18 kHz it mainly depends on your age, and it's also the area where the K-weighting can fail cuz it actually gives more weight to frequencies that adult humans simply can't hear anymore, and where even young humans have reduced sensitivity.
So an easy improvement to those null tests could be to add a simple high-cut filter to all samples before measuring them.

But if you are comparing two amp+cab sounds (like in most null tests out there) where content above 18 kHz is already pretty low, a difference there simply can't have a huge impact on the LUFS measurement.
E.g. if the signal above 18 kHz in the sum of the original samples is at -50 dBFS, it can't be measured as -20 LUFS in the null test, not even if it is completely different, it's mathematically impossible.
At most it can be -50 dB LUFS with a steady signal, but in 99% of cases it will be lower than -50 actually, cuz dBFS is a sample peak measurement and integrated LUFS is an average of several rms measurements across a certain time interval.

How is below 50hz perceptible on guitar? Tuning an octave down?

Same with top end, what you think a guitar speaker does above 18k. Before that most here won’t even hear 15k.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The signal to noise ratio of this thread is worse than the reverb I built in high school.

Can we hear some sound examples?

 

[Sascha Franck]

How is below 50hz perceptible on guitar? Tuning an octave down?

Well, low E of a bass is already at 41,2Hz - and I'd say that the Kemper isn't made exclusively for guitar players. And as you said, once you're using an octaver, you're there as well.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Well, low E of a bass is already at 41,2Hz - and I'd say that the Kemper isn't made exclusively for guitar players. And as you said, once you're using an octaver, you're there as well.

And are the null tests done with bass or octaver?

 

[Sascha Franck]

And are the null tests done with bass or octaver?

Likely not. And frankly put (as you may know), I don't exactly care. Was just sayin...

 

[Richard_G]

Time for a new thread: "Kemper Profiler Mk2 - Just the facts"

The signal to noise ratio of this thread is worse than the reverb I built in high school.

I’m sure there will be lots of facts about Kemper’s new profiling in this thread - as soon as Kemper starts providing any…

 

[texhex]

I think the official name is Profiling 2: Cruise Control

Profiling 2: Electric Boogaloo! Dude, I would totally buy one.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I’m sure there will be lots of facts about Kemper’s new profiling in this thread - as soon as Kemper starts providing any…

Isn’t there already a Kemper thread anyway? Just use that, since it’s basically a new coat of paint anyway.

 

[DrewJD82]

Just for Mk2 level captures.
Which I actually think is fair. So you're not losing any functionality compared to the Mk1 versions, you just win some additional "fixed" FX (maybe useful as they would free up the user definable slots) and the new Mk2 level capturing - which would then require a computer to be connected.

Seriously, while I think of their marketing to be pretty shady, while I also think of their paid functionality stunt for the Player to be most miserable, I still don't think that all this is genuinely bad. I mean, we should at least wait and see how well the new profiling does. If it's getting to ToneX level accuracy, things would look pretty good, wouldn't they? I mean, the new units are no more expensive than the old ones, either.

Oh yes, I still think this upgrade is sort of underwhelming. Regarding functionality, I'm sure a lot of people would wish being able to load multiple captures and also have parallel signal paths and what not. And many people seem to wish for an updated UI, too. Can't disagree with either wieh.

Still, if I had to choose between, say, the Kemper Stage, the Helix Floor, the TMP, the QC and possibly one of the better Headrush offerings as a single standalone live unit, I'd very like grab the Kemper, even without the new profiling and FX. And yes, I can perfectly justify that choice for my use cases.
(I explicitely didn't mention the FM9 because that'd very likely be the clear winner, but it's in another price bracket.)

I've got zero experience with Kemper which is surely playing a role in how I'm seeing this, but it does not seem logical to me at all to launch a new product on the basis it does the main thing it was designed to do better than the previous version, but actually can't do the new thing it was created for.

That profiling better be REALLY fucking good to warrant the purchasing of an entirely new unit that does half the job the first one did while delivering a rather small effects update that every other company would release in a FW update. I just can't wrap my head around this at all.

 

[DLC86]

How is below 50hz perceptible on guitar? Tuning an octave down?

I was talking in general and not specifically for guitar... but:
Ever played a palm mute? Do you know how intermodulation distortion works?
I mean, just pick up an RTA plugin and see if there's signal down there.

EDIT: a screenshot done while I was playing some palm mutes with a 5150
EDIT2: and I just realized I even had an 80 Hz 12 dB/oct low cut engaged there, that peak at 40 Hz would be 12 dB higher without it

Same with top end, what you think a guitar speaker does above 18k. Before that most here won’t even hear 15k.

That's exaclty what I wrote in the post you quoted...

 

[Sascha Franck]

I've got zero experience with Kemper which is surely playing a role in how I'm seeing this, but it does not seem logical to me at all to launch a new product on the basis it does the main thing it was designed to do better than the previous version, but actually can't do the new thing it was created for.

I defenitely agree with all of that. As does possibly almost everyone in this thread. Their marketing is just terrifically bad.
Yet, just given some more or less objective observations, the unit itself could still be quite great. As said, many people just love Kempers - for (IMO good) reasons. And if I hadn't decided to do with a hybrid rig for the time being, I'd very likely be rocking a Stage by now, too - without any regrets, I'm sure.

 

[DrewJD82]

I defenitely agree with all of that. As does possibly almost everyone in this thread. Their marketing is just terrifically bad.
Yet, just given some more or less objective observations, the unit itself could still be quite great. As said, many people just love Kempers - for (IMO good) reasons. And if I hadn't decided to do with a hybrid rig for the time being, I'd very likely be rocking a Stage by now, too - without any regrets, I'm sure.

I'm sure it'll be just as good as the original version, being that it's the same thing with 7(?) new effects.

I'm just not able to wrap my head around buying a whole new unit for what should come in a FW update....especially given the fact that no one has even heard these new profiles yet. Marketing is one thing but the fact this is all a thing is bewildering to me. I can't imagine this is moving the needle for anyone but Kemper fans.......that already own the unit and are going to buy it over again and in some cases, a computer, too. Generally when a company in this realm puts out a new product, you get several people speculating selling their existing platform and switching, or considering the possibilities, like the Nano Cortex getting ToneX people wondering if the grass is greener, this just seems to be getting everyone but Kemper users to say "WTF?"

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'm just not able to wrap my head around buying a whole new unit for what should come in a FW update

Well, the new profiling will likely need somewhat more CPU juice, so it couldn't be just a FW update.
Apart from that, why would anyone buy a unit just now? Wait until the actual profiling is there and then decide. Easy.

I can't imagine this is moving the needle for anyone but Kemper fans

Certainly doesn't move my needle (more than it was moved before already at least - which wasn't enough to make me buy one), but I'm also not up in arms at all. And why would anyone?

 

[OneEng]

Wait, even the toaster units are going to require a computer for the new captures?

Yes, but that is hardly different than NAM. I don't see anyone bashing NAM for doing the same thing.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me, it is certainly more of a "Who Cares" since I (like about 95% of Kemper owners) don't profile anyway.

Yes, same requirement. For a third the price. None of your other selling points are selling points to me, since they’re not Fractal/Strymon/Meris level anyway, IMO.

Morphing is unique as far as I know and implemented very well (best in class). The reverbs and delays are absolutely top notch. H9 level all the way. Not sure if you have actually worked with them or not.

The new drives are really good as well; however, since I no longer have any of the originals to compare to, I'll give that one to you. The rest? They are pretty damned good.