Kemper Profiler MK 2

[eggpl@nt]

Yes, but that is hardly different than NAM. I don't see anyone bashing NAM for doing the same thing.

Because that’s always how NAM has been… Kemper, on the other hand, is adding clunk to the process while also trying to sell you this unit as new and improved. I’m sure you can sEE why this could be a pain in the ass or inconvenience.

Further, it makes the mk2 moniker a bit laughable. Would it not make more sense for the mk2 unit to do this whiz bang new profiling on unit, just like we’re accustomed to doing with a Kemper?

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I was talking in general and not specifically for guitar... but:
Ever played a palm mute? Do you know how intermodulation distortion works?
I mean, just pick up an RTA plugin and see if there's signal down there.

EDIT: a screenshot done while I was playing some palm mutes with a 5150
EDIT2: and I just realized I even had an 80 Hz 12 dB/oct low cut engaged there, that peak at 40 Hz would be 12 dB higher without it
View attachment 46183


That's exaclty what I wrote in the post you quoted...

Nobody said there was digital black. But the stuff down there gets hi-pass’d.

As for the patronising tone of “ever playing palm mutes”. Go ahead explain it to me.

As for intermodulation distortion, sure a E power chord will produce an octave down except it’ll be attenuated enough that it’s completely inconsequential.

 

[LP59]

Morphing is unique as far as I know and implemented very well (best in class). The reverbs and delays are absolutely top notch. H9 level all the way. Not sure if you have actually worked with them or not.

Kemper morphing is very limited compared to what you can do in others like Helix and Fractal. Kemper really needs to catch up by adding more morph scenes and allow more parameters to be morphed.

I don't think even Kemper would agree with you that the effects are at Fractal level.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I don't think even Kemper would agree with you that the effects are at Fractal level.

No detailed idea about the Fractal reverbs, but some of the ones in the Kemper are almost glorious IMO.

 

[Lysander]

No detailed idea about the Fractal reverbs, but some of the ones in the Kemper are almost glorious IMO.

For all the discussion about Kemper's capture accuracy, their effects are really great. I never owned a Kemper, but had many chances to play with one from a former bandmate, and was always impressed by FXs on that box.

 

[DLC86]

But the stuff down there gets hi-pass’d.

Not always and probably never on null tests.

As for the patronising tone of “ever playing palm mutes”. Go ahead explain it to me.

As for intermodulation distortion, sure a E power chord will produce an octave down except it’ll be attenuated enough that it’s completely inconsequential.

Nothing to explain, just look at the graph I posted.

Honestly I'm tired of this thread, tired of arguing over stuff that anyone can easily verify by himself and tired of examining every possible scenario to check if every damn statement is always and incontrovertibly true or not.
I'm officially out.

 

[Orvillain]

 

[DLC86]

You deserve my last goodbye

 

[dws2384]

My wild speculative guess (with no insider knowledge) is that since the DSP chip is the same as MK1 that perhaps the ‘base profile’ will still be done on device in the manner it is now, which makes some sense as Kemper has already said without a computer it will just profile in MK1 quality.

However, once the ‘base profile’ is made, the refine process (which can give pretty different results depending on how and what you do) will be passed off to the computer where the AI stuff they mention will do what it needs to do to get the accuracy they claim.

This would also mean that the profile in itself wouldn’t be that much different from a code perspective to still run on the existing DSP chip, but perhaps just more data points and hence accuracy? This would also make some sense as they say MK2 profiles will run on MK1 with lower resolution

The one thing I can’t wrap my head around is why it couldn’t run on MK1 when the chips are the same.

 

[Orvillain]

You deserve my last goodbye

Okay. "Tone Scientist"

 

[DLC86]

Okay. "Tone Scientist"

Narrow Mind Disaster

 

[Lysander]

My wild speculative guess (with no insider knowledge) is that since the DSP chip is the same as MK1 that perhaps the ‘base profile’ will still be done on device in the manner it is now, which makes some sense as Kemper has already said without a computer it will just profile in MK1 quality.

Wow, i had to check this, and indeed the Player (which is supposedly "MKII") uses the same NXP Symphony DSPB56720 chip as the old Kempers

Really looking forward for a teardown of "real" MKII devices though, because it makes little sense to me they would still use this DSP - not only it would mean that the difference between MKI and MKII Kempers is cosmetic, and software-driven, but the 56720 has to be EOL by now. NXP only guaranteed shipping until 2018, and has it listed as "not recommended for new designs" status since.

 

[dws2384]

Really looking forward for a teardown of "real" MKII devices though

The player is a real MK2 device though. I don’t think there would be any difference.

 

[Funk Soul Brother]

I've got zero experience with Kemper which is surely playing a role in how I'm seeing this, but it does not seem logical to me at all to launch a new product on the basis it does the main thing it was designed to do better than the previous version, but actually can't do the new thing it was created for.

That profiling better be REALLY fucking good to warrant the purchasing of an entirely new unit that does half the job the first one did while delivering a rather small effects update that every other company would release in a FW update. I just can't wrap my head around this at all.

The fact that Kemper v2 is being built with an obsolete chip at the heart of it's design, in an age where chip production has eclipsed earlier designs & is dirt cheap, speaks volumes about Kemper's "situation".

Perhaps they overbought the old chips (or PCBs/Enclosures?) & don't want to spend the to *update*, perhaps they no longer have the eng'r. tech and/or for a complete circuit redesign to create an *actual* new version of Kemper hdw., who da feck knows

But as someone that worked in aerospace eng'r. this kind of behavior usually happens when a company is in deep, deep

Oh, you need external processing power for your "design" to work?

Then, there's the whole FU reality where Kemper is $elling "New! Improved!!!" MK2 units without the FW required to make them fully functional...

Clearly, without a doubt, the FW is in development HELL & may *never* be fully realized...

I've seen brainwashed fanboies in the past getting screwed (e.g. TGP male karens moaning about getting "ripped-off" for $1000s in deposits for "custom" boutique gear), but this level moronicity is

 

[Funk Soul Brother]

Because that’s always how NAM has been… Kemper, on the other hand, is adding clunk to the process while also trying to sell you this unit as new and improved. I’m sure you can sEE why this could be a pain in the ass or inconvenience.

Further, it makes the mk2 moniker a bit laughable. Would it not make more sense for the mk2 unit to do this whiz bang new profiling on unit, just like we’re accustomed to doing with a Kemper?

Shills are gonna shill...

 

[LP59]

Wow, i had to check this, and indeed the Player (which is supposedly "MKII") uses the same NXP Symphony DSPB56720 chip as the old Kempers

Really looking forward for a teardown of "real" MKII devices though, because it makes little sense to me they would still use this DSP - not only it would mean that the difference between MKI and MKII Kempers is cosmetic, and software-driven, but the 56720 has to be EOL by now. NXP only guaranteed shipping until 2018, and has it listed as "not recommended for new designs" status since.

That's old news, 20 pages back in this huge thread . Kemper is tied to that DSP and will never change. It's still available, but I'm sure they have a big stockpile.

Anyway that explains a lot of things, like why they need to use a computer to do the new profiling and why the changes between Mk1 and Mk2 are so small.

That's an interesting idea that it's only the refining that runs on the computer.

 

[dws2384]

Perhaps they overbought the old chips & don't want to spend the to *update*, perhaps they no longer have the eng'r. tech and/or for a complete redesign to create an *actual* new version of Kemper hdw., who da feck knows

Seems more likely that they don’t want to rewrite the engine that all of their products use to a different chip/instruction set.

If they can get the accuracy they are claiming out of MK2 process and maintain backwards compatibility with older units then I don’t see it as a bad move.

BUT the improvements in the profiling better bring it up to par (or better) than their competitors or then yes, it was a very stupid move, and will look even more so if this is what they are locked into for the next 5+ years

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Morphing is unique as far as I know

Nothing that can’t also be done on Fractal and Helix, but yes. Call it unique.

 

[Lysander]

That's old news, 20 pages back in this huge thread . Kemper is tied to that DSP and will never change. It's still available, but I'm sure they have a big stockpile.

Interestingly, one thing that did seem to change is the microcontroller CPU. The old Kempers use a NXP LPC2468, whereas the Player (and presumibly all "MKII" devices) use a NXP LPC4327 instead.

All Kemper devices have this CPU in a dedicated plug-in board, which makes it a relatively easy upgrade.

Not sure if this would have any real world performance impact though - the board controls things like the display, I/O and programming the main DSP chip. Maybe that's why MKIIs boot faster

 

[Lysander]

Seems more likely that they don’t want to rewrite the engine that all of their products use to a different chip/instruction set.

Yeah, that's a big PITA. NXP has a brand new line of DSP devices (MSC8xxxx) but, as far as i can tell, it's a completely different architecture.