Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Dimiguitar]

Definitely. I think my favorite digital product right now is my AM4. I wonder where those sales would rank if you were able to make it available in big box stores like these units.

I know the QC progress has been slow but the form factor is great, has a touchscreen, has modeling and captures (which are now high level captures), you can make captures on the device, wifi, cloud, etc.

It's easy to focus on the negatives (PCOM taking eons, not many new amp models are effects, launch fiasco). But I think it's in a good spot now and hopefully they keep pushing it forward

QC seems to be the too dog, really, at least in places Thomann sells the most.

Personally, I've used FM3 for years as my main unit. I don't see that changing, because 1) I reaaaaally like the amp sim workflow and 2) tonex covers what's left and acts like a backup.

Now the helix stadiums.. they just cost too much for me to justify. The new features, while innovative and cool, aren't that important to me.

I also don't feel the amp sims are better than what I currently have. Fractal sims mostly still seem a step ahead, even if the difference isn't substantial. Plus all the deep editing.

Heck, the Kemper player with V2 profiling (if it's great) could be rather attractive for me, even. I just can't stomach the whole "more money, higher tier" thing.

 

[Dimiguitar]

And for format of an all-in-one unit, I much prefer the QC to anything out there.

The Fractal AM4 also seems great but haven't tried one.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Lol, how is even the BLUE QC selling so well? The regular color, ok, but that one?! "Blue QC isn't real; it can't hurt you". Oh yes, it is.

 

[Richard_G]

How transparent is Thomann’s sales ranking system?

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

How transparent is Thomann’s sales ranking system?

fairly transparent, but depending on pickup - you can get some decent edge of breakup with it too


[ I'll get my coat ]

 

[JiveTurkey]

fairly transparent, but depending on pickup - you can get some decent edge of breakup with it too


[ I'll get my coat ]

 

[Jarick]

QC seems to be the too dog, really, at least in places Thomann sells the most.

Personally, I've used FM3 for years as my main unit. I don't see that changing, because 1) I reaaaaally like the amp sim workflow and 2) tonex covers what's left and acts like a backup.

Now the helix stadiums.. they just cost too much for me to justify. The new features, while innovative and cool, aren't that important to me.

I also don't feel the amp sims are better than what I currently have. Fractal sims mostly still seem a step ahead, even if the difference isn't substantial. Plus all the deep editing.

Heck, the Kemper player with V2 profiling (if it's great) could be rather attractive for me, even. I just can't stomach the whole "more money, higher tier" thing.

Totally hear you on the Stadium pricing. I get all the prices have to go up but $2200 plus tax is a chunk of change for a modeler, that seems a bit rich for me. Once they're available used for under $1800 and have more features it's going to be a better value.

QC I still don't trust...V2 profiles seem like a really good step in the right direction but I need to see more development there to really buy in to the platform again. And the Nano is still pretty stripped down.

Fractal right now has the sweet spot I think, both on the lower end and higher end. Will be interested to see what the next gen brings though, if they can overhaul the UI and sneak a few more switches on the lower end modeler that's going to be killer.

 

[Lysander]

How transparent is Thomann’s sales ranking system?

...ish. AFAIK, Thomann sale rankings don't reflect sell-through figures.

 

[Orvillain]

[ I'll get my coat ]

Get mine too. I'm taking you to the bridge.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Get mine too. I'm taking you to the bridge.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Totally hear you on the Stadium pricing. I get all the prices have to go up but $2200 plus tax is a chunk of change for a modeler, that seems a bit rich for me. Once they're available used for under $1800 and have more features it's going to be a better value.

QC I still don't trust...V2 profiles seem like a really good step in the right direction but I need to see more development there to really buy in to the platform again. And the Nano is still pretty stripped down.

Fractal right now has the sweet spot I think, both on the lower end and higher end. Will be interested to see what the next gen brings though, if they can overhaul the UI and sneak a few more switches on the lower end modeler that's going to be killer.

For me, tonex one (which includes the plugin) is hard to beat for cheap-good ratio. But it's obviously not an all-in-one unit, so kind of a different category.

I haven't had enough experience with QC to have firm conclusions about it... At least not with current firmware. I also remember people talking about how its noise floor, for whatever reason, is higher than other units.

Don't know what's true though.

 

[paisleywookiee]

The problem with Tonex is their hardware is kinda crap. Sure, it's a really good value for what it does, particularly the T1. But the UI is tedious on the bigger pedal, the effects suck, etc. If IK A. updated all of their Amplitube models to the same level, and B. came out with a Helix-esque floorboard that was both Amplitube modeling AND Tonex, that would definitely be a serious player. I really dig a lot of what Amplitube has to offer.

 

[Dimiguitar]

And btw about Kemper.

In terms of popularity, look at the views their videos are getting --

Not bad, especially recently.

 

[Dimiguitar]

The problem with Tonex is their hardware is kinda crap. Sure, it's a really good value for what it does, particularly the T1. But the UI is tedious on the bigger pedal, the effects suck, etc. If IK A. updated all of their Amplitube models to the same level, and B. came out with a Helix-esque floorboard that was both Amplitube modeling AND Tonex, that would definitely be a serious player. I really dig a lot of what Amplitube has to offer.

What concerns me about an all-in-one tonex/amplitude unit is the UI design. An all-in-one is a much bigger task, and considering some of what we've seen, the UI could end up the stuff of nightmares.

 

[paisleywookiee]

What concerns me about an all-in-one tonex/amplitude unit is the UI design. An all-in-one is a much bigger task, and considering some of what we've seen, the UI could end up the stuff of nightmares.

that is very true. I don't actually see them ever doing that anyway. Amplitube seems to have become a much lesser priority to them, ever since Tonex came out.

 

[OneEng]

But the EQ doesn’t need to work exactly like the real amp controls to get the job done well. Most of the real tone controls are horrible anyway. Even the basic Tonex EQ is far better for the normal tone shaping tasks we want to do than baked in passive BMT stacks.

It’s a matter of do you want it to sound good or is it more important that it accurately model something you don’t even have to compare to? This whole thing is an excuse capture haters have fabricated to justify their capture hatred, not a real world limitation that would keep you from dialing in a decent tone.

Be careful. It isn't what EVERYONE wants. It happens to be what I want, and what I THINK most want, but there are many that really want a perfect capture device.

No, the whole point is to create good guitar tones. The rest of the shit is all in your heads.

Disagree. I think the point of MK2 is marketing. Kemper has (for some stupid reason) decided to hang their hat on being the best capture device vs. being the best live gig rig. To meet this, they are doing profiling 2.0 using the same DSP hardware as MK1 (they cheeped out).

By my rough calculations, KPA V2 Profiling is now more than 4 months late plus the Website is unchanged from announcement date .... and zero updates / communications from KPA about current status .... pretty f*cking crazy way to announce and run and [not] roll out such a [supposedly] massive update and change.

"Pitiful " comes to mind.

I always found Kemper tones to fall apart the more you messed with them. Not just with EQ, but also the definition controls….. There’d be a pretty narrow window where it sort of resembles the amp and once you start adjusting things, it turns into a kind of weird sounding digital thing. Liquid Profiles didn’t really help with that at all, and that was essentially my final straw with Kemper. The tone would change in a different way by using a tone stack but you’d still be moving towards something a bit weird sounding. There’s so much heavy handed EQ going on already, I think there’s some merit in the path of least obstacles. I’m not saying that they’re useless for everyone (in a pinch boosting a bit more low end or top end could be fine) but it was always enough of a compromise for me that I’d rather have more captures at different settings than trying to bend something into place. For someone else, that might be different.

When you load up a profile, you’re already thinking about what amp and sound you are going for. It’s not really a case of just searching for something good - you’re targeting something a bit more specific than that. It’s also very easy to dismiss things that on paper should be within a few tweaks of what you want, but sound miles away. No point tweaking something if it’s a long way off to begin with.

Mostly agree. Finding a good starting profile is the hardest part. Compare this to a pure modeler approach and one has to wonder which one gets you to a "good tone you were looking for" the fastest and best? I believe it is quite debatable.

The great news is that even with this likely Kemper flameout, everyone will have plenty of options from which to choose. IK and Neural continue to improve their captures. Plenty of manufacturers remain primarily focused on modeling. There's nothing for anyone to be upset about, except maybe people who bought Mk2 Kemper hardware thinking it was going to do significantly more or do it significantly better.

100% agree.

It might be a long wait for that funeral because, as you pointed out, the only way those ’loads of better options’ are better is if you only compare the “tone perspective”. Many of those better options are lacking years later with user interface and or effects, midi, etc. etc.
Since buyers also need those things Kemper is still one of upper tier competitors.

Its current tech is at a roadblock and the mkii isn’t likely to change that but Kemper can keep selling product until all those better options up their game to compete with a whole package. That last 5% better accuracy for a capture/ modeled sound isn’t enough to drive a stake in Kempers heart if keeps getting packaged in an incomplete piece of hardware.

Most of the ‘better’ devices are more like a proof of concept than a ready for mass production. ToneX and QC are still struggling even now!

I completely agree with this. Despite all the stupidity going on at Kemper, the fact remains that for an all-in-one gig rig, Kemper is pretty hard to beat ..... especially if you take into account price.

Other than accuracy of tones QC is still trying to deliver on the ‘rest of the package’. I was an early preorder owner serial number was under #300 if I recall. I’ve owned another a few years later and a Nano spurred by my optimism and fear of missing out. They are all long gone.
I’m very tuned in to what I bought, what they kept promising and what they have actually delivered.

Stadium vs, QC? I’ll take the bet on Line 6 every time.

.... and this is where Kemper is really in the most trouble IMO. Even without capture capabilities at all, Stadium is a fantastic offering. If you want a particular tone, Stadium makes it pretty easy to get it. It does a dozen other things as well making it a very good all-around solution. I think the ability to capture is just added in as something for marketing. I wonder how many people will just use the new amp modeling capability and better efx when those are updated. As much of this discussion has been, many just want a particular "good tone" for a given song. I am not sold on the idea that ONLY a perfect capture of the original amp can satisfy that.

 

[synthpenguin]

And btw about Kemper.

In terms of popularity, look at the views their videos are getting --

Not bad, especially recently.

Interesting that uploads from the last 10 months or so are getting significantly more views than older videos (even of the same format). If you go by that as a measure of popularity, then Kemper has gotten more popular in the last year, but I wonder if it's more just reflective of people checking out the channel for mk 2 news, and then maybe the algo pushing their vids.

 

[RevBillyG]

What profile/capture device doesn’t have EQ controls just like amps and modelers? Yes, they usually aren’t historically accurate, but they are usually much better if you know how to use them.

They're extremely accurate if you compare them correctly.

I have no problem using an EQ before the amp like Slash or Billy Gibbons. I have no problem using an EQ post amp, like every studio engineer in the history of audio media.

I have no problem increasing or decreasing gain before an amp.

 

[ChordInversion]

The problem with Tonex is their hardware is kinda crap. Sure, it's a really good value for what it does, particularly the T1. But the UI is tedious on the bigger pedal, the effects suck, etc. If IK A. updated all of their Amplitube models to the same level, and B. came out with a Helix-esque floorboard that was both Amplitube modeling AND Tonex, that would definitely be a serious player. I really dig a lot of what Amplitube has to offer.

That would also require them to fix the "just guess, bruh" issue with the input gain of their Amplitude models.

 

[JiveTurkey]

They're extremely accurate if you compare them correctly.

I have no problem using an EQ before the amp like Slash or Billy Gibbons. I have no problem using an EQ post amp, like every studio engineer in the history of audio media.

I have no problem increasing or decreasing gain before an amp.