Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Chocol8]

One advantage of profiling 2.0 is that it can generate results in 30 seconds. CK said this, and also that they may increase the time by some small margin.

This can be important to some. It's an advantage -- and probably points to profiling 2.0 being much less computationally demanding than the approach some competitors have taken.

That’s a HUGE red flag and suggests they are still doing the same thing of trying to shoehorn whatever amp is profiled onto one of a limited number of built in models vs doing a full high resolution “learning”. I would expect that approach to keep working well for middle of the road common stuff, but fall down with unusual amps and effects and edge cases.

How is Kemper v2 going to handle a fuzz pedal or an amp with a fuzz in front? I would shocked if they can do that well in 30 seconds.

 

[namathan_zirwir]

Will Kemper’s new profiling do OD, fuzz pedals and compressors, or just amps?

 

[Jarick]

After a solid weekend of trash talking the Kemper I did hook my Player up and found a profile from Dan Leggatt's 80s rack pack that is a blast to play. It's a profile of his Laney VC15 with really well dialed effects, a squishy compressor up front, a really nice micro pitch detune, and a bit of reverb. I added a basic delay to the mix at times and brought up the definition and presence so it would cut better.

It's really warm sounding but feels awesome to play. I really think the effects on the Kemper are underrated...they do an amazing job of melting into the primary tone. Especially with clean tones, it's really sweet sounding.

The high gains...I dunno even the best ones just sound weird. Low end feels like there's a bit crusher on it or something, it's somehow both mushy and hard sounding at the same time. A lot of times it sounds like there's an 808 drive pedal on to push the mids and tame the highs. Amps can often sound way too similar to each other, even when shot by different profilers using different cabs.

It's like there's some sauce all over everything you can't get away from. If the new profiling can clean up the low end and midrange and at least get a little clarity back in the high end I think that really could breathe a lot of life into the unit. The interface will still be the same for better or worse, but at least there's something to work with.

Oh, and the Player really needed a proper interface. Even if it sounds killer only being able to control two parameters of two effects and have zero idea what you're using unless it's got a computer is just a big bummer.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I bet that made you feel good.

I don’t think it is a good feeling.
Maybe it’s the cynic in me but it was sadly a lot like I feel when I give $10 to a beggar outside of a restaurant who swears its for food not drugs or alcohol but when I offer to let him join us for a meal he stumbles with an excuse to explain he needs the cash to go buy food elsewhere.
It’s a hollow kind of experience. But I’m ever hopeful you went for the food for thought…

 

[Orvillain]

I don’t think it is a good feeling.
Maybe it’s the cynic in me but it was sadly a lot like I feel when I give $10 to a beggar outside of a restaurant who swears its for food not drugs or alcohol but when I offer to let him join us for a meal he stumbles with an excuse to explain he needs the cash to go buy food elsewhere.
It’s a hollow kind of experience. But I’m ever hopeful you went for the food for thought…

Ohhhh, you skewered me good. Darnit!

 

[Dimiguitar]

A lot of times it sounds like there's an 808 drive pedal on to push the mids and tame the highs. Amps can often sound way too similar to each other, even when shot by different profilers using different cabs.

It's like there's some sauce all over everything you can't get away from.

100%. It's as if there's a core high gain amp sim, with some parameters automatically filled in during profiling, EQ matched to the source.

That can work well. For those familiar with EQ matching, you've probably had the experience where high gain amp sims replicate the source very closely that way -- with one difference being you have to manually set up the amp sim parameters, such as gain levels.

But the thing is, EQ matching has limitations. The low end response can be different in ways that EQ can't fix. So I suspect that's part of what Kemper worked on, perhaps -- maybe along with better EQ matching.

(Theory pulled out of my patootie).

If the new profiling can clean up the low end and midrange and at least get a little clarity back in the high end I think that really could breathe a lot of life into the unit.

For me, absolutely.

It's a bit of a pity that other core aspects of the unit weren't improved. Better profiling the way you described plus a nice, modernized UI? Could go a long way and attract new buyers.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Google Gemini's idea of a desktop Kemper with better UI lel

 

[Dimiguitar]

And one that's closer to the original design:

 

[laxu]

That’s a HUGE red flag and suggests they are still doing the same thing of trying to shoehorn whatever amp is profiled onto one of a limited number of built in models vs doing a full high resolution “learning”. I would expect that approach to keep working well for middle of the road common stuff, but fall down with unusual amps and effects and edge cases.

How is Kemper v2 going to handle a fuzz pedal or an amp with a fuzz in front? I would shocked if they can do that well in 30 seconds.

I actually like the idea of being able to do captures in 30 seconds. Tonex V2 takes a good 3 minutes just for the test signal alone, and I think best case scenario is something like 7 minutes for the model to be trained. So 10 min per capture if you want to verify it against the real amp. 3 minutes otherwise.

Even with Tonex's streamlined capture process, it's still a bit of a pain in the ass.

30 seconds would allow you to shoot a lot of captures at lots of settings in relatively little time. If it can handle most amps well I think that can be a good compromise.

 

[Gary_W]

Will Kemper’s new profiling do OD, fuzz pedals and compressors, or just amps?

You’ve always been able to profile OD and fuzz in theory - compressors are not possible afaik.

I can’t comment on how good or bad the results are - I never tried it (or tried out a profile of a pedal made by someone else) but there was a commercial seller many years ago who sold profiles of pedals. The problem is that the Kemper can only handle one profile at a time and that is also going to be the case when v2 comes out. No point profiling a pedal alone when you cannot then get it to feed into a profiled amp. For this reason, you’ll see lots of captures out there of an amp at various settings then the same amp with a Timmy or tube screamer in the chain or whatever. Capturing the whole chain has always been the way.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I still don’t like their hardware and their UI workflow. The Player is okay but really dislike the Stage and the toaster designs.

I actually think they're excellent. Which is precisely why I'll be watching the 2nd hand market once the Mk2 firmware including the new profiling drops. Possibly won't hurt to have a Mk1 Stage around for €500.

 

[Dimiguitar]

I actually like the idea of being able to do captures in 30 seconds. Tonex V2 takes a good 3 minutes just for the test signal alone, and I think best case scenario is something like 7 minutes for the model to be trained. So 10 min per capture if you want to verify it against the real amp. 3 minutes otherwise.

Even with Tonex's streamlined capture process, it's still a bit of a pain in the ass.

30 seconds would allow you to shoot a lot of captures at lots of settings in relatively little time. If it can handle most amps well I think that can be a good compromise.

Personally, I wouldn't compromise on accuracy (unless it took a month to train a capture), but the 30 seconds to a minute process is certainly an advantage.

Usually it takes me longer to dial in an amp sim and EQ match it to source. Maybe 5 minutes on average. Some times less, some times more -- and usually with considerably better results than profiling 1.0, if the amp sim is a good one.

With tonex, I just let captures process overnight. Takes about an hour per 1 capture (with my m1 MacBook air) , and sometimes it hasn't finished come next morning... And the air is fuming like train, aroused volcano.

So I do think profiling 2.0 can be a good compromise for some people.

 

[Jarick]

Will Kemper’s new profiling do OD, fuzz pedals and compressors, or just amps?

I haven’t heard any claims about those so I’d imagine no. But Kemper doesn’t make sense for those. Neural can run multiple captures which would let you do a fuzz capture or comp capture in front of a proper amp capture or model. Or for standalone pedal captures the Tonex One makes more sense. Way cheaper and smaller.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I haven’t heard any claims about those so I’d imagine no. But Kemper doesn’t make sense for those. Neural can run multiple captures which would let you do a fuzz capture or comp capture in front of a proper amp capture or model. Or for standalone pedal captures the Tonex One makes more sense. Way cheaper and smaller.

This is actually one of the things baffling me the most with the entire MK2 episode. No multiple captures, let alone a true split/stereo path - that's something pretty much everyone would expect (and was kinda asking for) from a 2025 modeler. Even with no changes to the actual modeling, it would've made sense already.

 

[Dimiguitar]

This is actually one of the things baffling me the most with the entire MK2 episode. No multiple captures, let alone a true split/stereo path - that's something pretty much everyone would expect (and was kinda asking for) from a 2025 modeler. Even with no changes to the actual modeling, it would've made sense already.

That would probably require much more processing power, hence more of a hardware upgrade... Which they may have been unable to make or just didn't care for, considering potential price increase.

 

[OneEng]

Even if their profiling catches up to Tonex, QCv2 etc (which I’m assuming it will be very similar)…I still don’t like their hardware and their UI workflow. The Player is okay but really dislike the Stage and the toaster designs. Really surprised they didn’t take the opportunity to refresh the design of their hardware. It’s very old and dated. And being the fact their new profiling isn’t out yet and who knows when, they just keep slipping further behind every day..

This is their biggest problem IMO. Their biggest strength is the value for the $ at this point and their gig ability.

That would probably require much more processing power, hence more of a hardware upgrade... Which they may have been unable to make or just didn't care for, considering potential price increase.

They didn't change the DSP hardware at all. My guess is that they simply optimized a bit of memory usage and used it for larger samples/buffers/IR's .... thus the "high resolution". You are quite correct though, I would bet there isn't anywhere near enough processing and memory to handle 2 amps in the chain.

@Jarick,

I agree with you on the utility of the current Kemper. It is a very good sounding device with outstanding effects. It's also a rock solid gigging rig.

 

[Sascha Franck]

That would probably require much more processing power, hence more of a hardware upgrade.

Of course - but that's the most baffling part with all of this. They actually *do* come around with a hardware upgrade and it's still not possible to use multiple captures?

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Of course - but that's the most baffling part with all of this. They actually *do* come around with a hardware upgrade and it's still not possible to use multiple captures?

Does anyone know if the part they replaced is still in production?
It would make more sense to me if it was phased out and in order to continue producing the Profiler they had to source a replacement part and that led to the opportunity to do a “mkII” version with some improvements.

Or the part is still in production but could be replaced by a different one at the same cost that opened the door to implement the improvements they had.

I find it hard to believe, even if the new firmware/profiling is as they say, that this was Kemper’s idea of a ‘Next Generation’ release.

It is certainly being scrutinized and criticized as that but they didn’t offer it as something that significant.

It would also explain why the hardware had to roll out even when firmware was held up….the choice being, send hardware out now or have no product on shelves until firmware is fully baked

 

[guitarsandcoffee]

Coming back for a moment to sound - Kemper definitely has a "sound" to it that I've found with several profiles. It's this middy-nosey-compressed thing that to my ears, gives away a Kemper every time. I have always upped the Tube Shape parameter to try and compensate some of it out.

Kemper can profile amps with some drive pedals, but certainly not all of them. Tube screamers, fuzz pedals, don't work.

I think Kemper is truly happy where they are and at a company level, do not want to change. People keep thinking they'll get dual amps, unlocked chain blocks, etc. - you won't in my opinion. They released the same physical product - so why would they change how the software and UI work.

Someone mentioned the FX loops - why on earth did they leave that out from the Player. Let's give you effects you can use on the player with your pedals, but no way to place your pedals where you want and use them in conjunction with the Player effects unless all you pedals are before or after the Player. For example, if I want my favorite delay pedal with the Player, I cannot use Reverb on the Player - it'll be before my delay!

 

[Jarick]

In theory you shouldn't need multiple captures if you have a solid drive/fuzz pedal modeling. That's one part of the Kemper that falls down for me, outside an 808 style boost everything sounds pretty meh.

I do wonder if you had higher resolution profiles would the stock Kemper drive modeling work? I guess I could spend 15 minutes testing this out using the Player in the loop of another modeler.