Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Ed DeGenaro]

Yeah, these are really somewhat underwhelming. Sure, you might be able to use some of them instead of the older FX, so you could then load up something else there, but in general, they're in fact kinda utilitarian. Defenitely not justifying a Mk 2 version jump IMO.
Which leaves us with the features reserved for the new hardware, most notably the new profiling algorhytm and the cab section.
I think that those better had to be really great (as in "killing it") for the KPA to become a 2025 product.

---

And fwiw, as said before (and maybe this could be updated later on): Not being able to load multiple captures and stil not being able to have two parallel signal paths is *very* underwhelming. I mean, even the HX Stomp can process two signals separately (sure, there's not much juice for FX, but running two amps and cabs is easily possible) and can become an incredibly useful thing in some scenarios, even if you're not using both paths simultaneously.
Pretty much all flagship modelers can do this these days.

I’m not holding my breath on the new profiling. But hey I’ll take free updates to the Player while toaster reached EOL

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I’m not holding my breath on the new profiling. But hey I’ll take free updates to the Player while toaster reached EOL

I just found out the xlr output can be reconfigured to a stereo unbalanced output, which for me makes the player a match for more applications.

And reading someone asking whynthenheadphone output is a full TRS instead of a mini Jack….together with the upcoming profiling for the player…makes me suspect/hope they can reconfigure outputs to inputs via software…and that would open up the option for a stereo efx loop!

(All outputs are trs, convert L to stereo via splitcable, R to a send, headphone to a stereo return)
I’d do a little dance if it would happen

 

[Antipodes]

My 2012 Mac mini also looks close to the same as my current one , and my current one offered extra speed from the start, and new functionality only after installing additional software. So in my mind it’s not all that different…
From a functional perspective you buy something very different out of the box today, then you did in 2011.

What does make me wonder: no USB3, seemingly no wifi/Bluetooth on the head/toaster either.
Although today there may not be immediate need for it, IF you plan for another 15 year lifetime of hardware, wouldn’t you include that?
Together with the “mk2” label instead of Kemper II..makes me suspect they have something else in the oven also. Probably on the same innerworkings so mk2 stays relevant, but in a different box.

USB3 is not needed for 8 way audio interfaces or running the editor. Length of cables supported is shorter for USB3 than for USB2 - or so I am told.

I wonder if this is step one in a revision from OG Kemper. This year we get new profiling/cab tech and some new FX in a similar enclosure. A further development which includes further modernisation of the unit will arrive when ready.

I wonder what the succession planning is like at Kemper. Will the company be powering onward toward a future after CK hangs up his skates? Might he be reluctant to undertake the work/risk of doing further major revisions? He could even sell his company to Private Equity or a major audio company to be assett stripped and retire rolling in cash. It happens. Maybe all that is a way off yet and he and his team will have another decade or more doing what they do.

 

[Richard_G]

Strikes me as kind of strange when some people now are hoping the new Kemper profiling will be on par with current Tonex capturing.

I’d expect a new Kemper - after all these years - would aim to surpass current Tonex and NAM capturing.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Strikes me as kind of strange when some people now are hoping the new Kemper profiling will be on par with current Tonex capturing.

I’d expect a new Kemper - after all these years - would aim to surpass current Tonex and NAM capturing.

You want reliable power in your house…but do you care if it’s 110 or 110,01 volts?
The whole capture thing is at the point (or close) where it doesn’t matter anymore, they all do the trick.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, if they treat this new version the same as the old one, user will likely enjoy years of constant updates. IMO something worth quite a lot.

 

[Stone]

Ahh you guys we dont hate here we analyse and make fun of anything yes including Fractal

 

[laxu]

What does make me wonder: no USB3, seemingly no wifi/Bluetooth on the head/toaster either.
Although today there may not be immediate need for it, IF you plan for another 15 year lifetime of hardware, wouldn’t you include that?
Together with the “mk2” label instead of Kemper II..makes me suspect they have something else in the oven also. Probably on the same innerworkings so mk2 stays relevant, but in a different box.

USB3 is pretty irrelevant for a product like this. USB2 has enough bandwidth. Think of all the USB2 audio interfaces out there with way more I/O than these. Since USB is backwards compatible it's not a compatibility problem either.

Not having a USB-C connection sucks though. Increasingly more devices are moving to USB-C so soon enough the most common cable you have lying around is USB-C. I already have difficulties finding spare mini-USB cables for a few devices from my stash of cables.

Leaving out wireless support is another mistake. Wifi/BT modules are tiny and cheap, but you need to design the chassis for their antennas.

I feel like they really wanted to do the bare minimum to quickly get a "next gen" device on the market.

 

[BenIfin]

Strikes me as kind of strange when some people now are hoping the new Kemper profiling will be on par with current Tonex capturing.

I’d expect a new Kemper - after all these years - would aim to surpass current Tonex and NAM capturing.

From their website:-

" More than 100,000 individual frequency points meticulously analyzed for the most precise amp recreation ever achieved "

There are no disclaimers or ifs or buts or maybe's or qualifications etc... ..... they are clearly stating it will be better than anything else ..... the ball is in their court ..... if they don't deliver on this, its not going to do their credibility reputation a lot of good.

 

[laxu]

From their website:-

" More than 100,000 individual frequency points meticulously analyzed for the most precise amp recreation ever achieved "

There are no disclaimers or ifs or buts or maybe's or qualifications etc... ..... they are clearly stating it will be better than anything else ..... the ball is in their court ..... if they don't deliver on this, its not going to do their credibility reputation a lot of good.

It's always worth reading any marketing with a huge grain of salt. "Precise" does not have to mean "accurate to the real amp"...it can just mean that they are analyzing 100K frequency points. Obviously the marketing wants you to believe it means "accurate to the real amp".

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

" More than 100,000 individual frequency points meticulously analyzed for the most precise amp recreation ever achieved .... "

They chopped the last few words off:
"....*by Kemper, but others may have already achieved better."

 

[ChordInversion]

The way I look at it, I have gear I am happy with. So I'll give the new Kemper a listen when it's fully available and there' no remaining confusion as to the newest generation of profiling and its results.

That said, I'm not a profiling/capture person in general. There is a specific sort of options anxiety that it comes with, because of the thousands and thousands of profiles and captures out there, many of which come with a price tag. I do like the idea of liquid profiling, because in my experience, EQ and gain controls on captures just don't sound the same at all (though if they sound good to you, then count it as a victory).

I also didn't fall in love with Tonex I've had for a few years now. It's good, yes. But even after the software upgrade, everything IK feels kind of "we did the bare minimum, and we'll go back to responding to every piece of feedback with a hand and a 'submit a support ticket'" to me.

Of course, I have IK overload in part because I got a crazy deal on their X-Gear pedals, and those are plain old befuddling (which might explain why I can't get any kind of offers for them in a major metro on Craigslist). They sound pretty good overall, but they have weird facets to them that I get hung up on. Like, who needs a USB recording interface on a modulation pedal? That instead of an editor? Really?

Anyway, back on the Kemper. I'm still in wait and see mode, and I may not even bother. I have an FM9, a GT-1000CORE, and a TMP (oh, and an IR-2, IR-200, ACS-1, and that aforementioned Tonex that will soon be for sale - yup, a gear dork), and I'm content. But possible improved liquid profiling at least warrants a listen for me.

As regards interface...I don't think I care that much, so long as the editor is good. I do like the TMP interface (the knobs more than the touch screen, which I can take or leave) for plugging in and quickly playing with just some trem and reverb. But for somethign more involved, I'm happy to just use the editor. I don't prefer to do complex stuff hunched over a device, even if I put it up on my desk.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

USB3 is pretty irrelevant for a product like this. USB2 has enough bandwidth. Think of all the USB2 audio interfaces out there with way more I/O than these. Since USB is backwards compatible it's not a compatibility problem either.

Not having a USB-C connection sucks though. Increasingly more devices are moving to USB-C so soon enough the most common cable you have lying around is USB-C. I already have difficulties finding spare mini-USB cables for a few devices from my stash of cables.

Leaving out wireless support is another mistake. Wifi/BT modules are tiny and cheap, but you need to design the chassis for their antennas.

I feel like they really wanted to do the bare minimum to quickly get a "next gen" device on the market.

My point was not that it needs usb3 today…my point was: does it make sense to ommit it if you aim for a 10/15 year horizon of hardware.

Personally I don’t think it’s Kempers DNA to put out stuff, just to put it out there. They have always been coming from “adding value to users” imo. My hypothese: The new innerworkings are a requirement for incremental functional development short/middle term, for MK2 connected to current front end/boxes, and parallel we will see release of Kemper II, same innerworkings, different box/FE. If I’m right MK2 will have a long lifespan, but parallel with a Kemper II.
…all speculation offcourse

 

[2dor]

New stuff for the KPP.

 

[Orvillain]

Strikes me as kind of strange when some people now are hoping the new Kemper profiling will be on par with current Tonex capturing.

I’d expect a new Kemper - after all these years - would aim to surpass current Tonex and NAM capturing.

1000% agreed.

 

[laxu]

My point was not that it needs usb3 today…my point was: does it make sense to ommit it if you aim for a 10/15 year horizon of hardware.

The only benefit of USB3 over USB2 is higher bandwidth...which is not needed for the audio interface capabilities this has. Similarly there's no need for the higher power delivery capabilities of USB3 since you aren't using the USB ports to power other gear.

Personally I don’t think it’s Kempers DNA to put out stuff, just to put it out there. They have always been coming from “adding value to users” imo. My hypothese: The new innerworkings are a requirement for incremental functional development short/middle term, for MK2 connected to current front end/boxes, and parallel we will see release of Kemper II, same innerworkings, different box/FE. If I’m right MK2 will have a long lifespan, but parallel with a Kemper II.
…all speculation offcourse

Historically Kemper has always been late to the game, and then not executing it better than the competition.

A floor unit was requested for ages and the Stage only came out like 6 years after the Toaster.

A smaller Kemper was another thing people were interested in, and ther Player only came out 1.5 years ago, while not having a screen like the other units. Not because it can't fit one, but because they didn't want to put one on. The touchscreen module of the Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp would easily fit into the Player chassis, and so would a small LCD.

To me it feels like Kemper is desperate to keep reusing as much of their existing code and parts as they can. That makes sense for cost of course, but it paints them into a corner.

The new Mk2 range is already not suited to handle the new, more complex effects workflows because they kept the front panel the same. I guess their idea is to have those new effects slots mostly as "set and forget" tools, but at least they could have thrown in an extra dedicated button to access them quickly.

Plus they should have launched it with the new profiling to maximize the impact of the MK2 series. Maybe their hand was forced because there were news of huge I'm being a dipshit and starting a political thread on EU products coming in the summer? That would significantly hurt their US sales, and there's like to be a big surge of orders with a new product launch.

 

[Orvillain]

My point was not that it needs usb3 today…my point was: does it make sense to ommit it if you aim for a 10/15 year horizon of hardware.

My RME UFXII is USB2. It was released in 2017. So it's been on the market 8 years, and I see no reason why in another 10 years it won't be supported.

USB3 is not really required for a lot of audio devices.

 

[NKP]

Maybe I’m weird - I don’t mind the screen at all. The functionality is what’s important.

Same here. Only the tone matter . If the rest is sexy that is cool, but if it is only sexy I won’t buy it

 

[Orvillain]

It's always worth reading any marketing with a huge grain of salt. "Precise" does not have to mean "accurate to the real amp"...it can just mean that they are analyzing 100K frequency points. Obviously the marketing wants you to believe it means "accurate to the real amp".

Kemper's approach - however they're doing it, it has never been disclosed - is empirically proven to be inferior to machine learning neural network based approaches. It will never be accurate to the real amp. The technology simply isn't capable of it.

Now if the MKII implements their own NAM-equivalent technology, and straps liquid profiling tech over the top of it to allow you to switch out tone-stacks and such, then that could be very interesting. But I am not falling for the marketing around this. I want exact specific details.


I'm not too fussed about the screen. The workflow on the device could be better, but it could be a lot worse. The preset switching was always really good. The effects were passable, though I never liked the mix controls on the delays and reverbs. They're certainly not good enough to get rid of all my pedals; but then.. nothing is.

For me, I can live with a lot of foibles. Like the Axe FX... I can live with how complex it is. But what I can't live with, is something that sound inaccurate, or just plain bad.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

A smaller Kemper was another thing people were interested in, and ther Player only came out 1.5 years ago, while not having a screen like the other units. Not because it can't fit one, but because they didn't want to put one on. The touchscreen module of the Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp would easily fit into the Player chassis, and so would a small LCD.

Yet I choose this one over the others…and would do it again.

To me it feels like Kemper is desperate to keep reusing as much of their existing code and parts as they can. That makes sense for cost of course, but it paints them into a corner.

That’s what they all do, and if your architecture is smart/component based, it’s the smart thing to do and not limiting at all.
I don’t believe any of the top modelers can afford to start from scratch, and if they do, id rather not pay for it

The new Mk2 range is already not suited to handle the new, more complex effects workflows because they kept the front panel the same. I guess their idea is to have those new effects slots mostly as "set and forget" tools, but at least they could have thrown in an extra dedicated button to access them quickly.

Agree that this frontend, at least from the unit, is not the best match for complex routing, hence my hypothese we might see parralel hardware for the customers who want that. I’m confident they have come upwith a way to access the new efx slot from the current FE though.