Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Sascha Franck]

Fire sale?

Sinking ship.
Given that it's MkII compatible, I'm pretty sure they expected it to get a sort of a boost in sales.

It really seems as if they've kinda lost the connection to reality. First the Player with the dreaded "in-app-purchases" stunt, which was received anything but well in the modeling "community", now their extremely underwhelming MkII featureset - I mean, pretty much any decent person into market(ing) research familiar with the subject of modeling could've told them these were no good moves. Now they're experiencing the consequences of either not researching or ignoring the results.
Too full of themselves.

 

[DrewJD82]

Yep! I think with the subsequent news from Line 6 and Tonex, they might realize what they have is not good enough and they might throw in the towel, or they might delay it it significantly, or might just release half baked crap and call it a day. I mean, see Virus 2.0 and all the statements Christoph has made over the last decade plus about gen 2 Kemper. Its not a huge leap to see this might not happen as you seem to expect.

This was my line of thought in regard to a potential vaporware situation. I don't doubt they've updated the quality of their profiling, but whether or not it's enough to move the needle in comparison to what's already out while the potential for Line 6 to come through with Proxy and clean house lingers. The timing is rough for Kemper, if they release something now that's maybe a 5% difference and doesn't make itself evident right away there's a good number of Proxy fence-sitters that'll get that much closer to making a decision. Once Kemper releases it, that's pretty much a "This is the best we can do after all this time and there's no reason to expect more out of the MKII" statement.

I can't imagine Line 6 putting out something that's going to be less-quality than what is already available and I'm assuming that's their exact target right now before they launch it, to at least obtain a level of qualiity that meets an average of all the existing profilers out there as they have some luxury in earned trust with their customers knowing Line 6 will keep working on it and tend to go for needle-moving improvements, rather than incremental.

 

[DrewJD82]

You seem to want Kemper to say something that they obviously don't think needs to be said. Considering that nobody else in this market publishes detailed specs about their processing hardware on their product web pages, I can see their viewpoint.

While that may be true, you're also highly likely to see Cliff or Eric discussing it in a post and offering more detail than a simple spec sheet would give. I'm quite certain for every Turbo or MKII release Fractal has had, Cliff has gone into detail about why it was necessary and you'll now precisely what is offered by the new unit, IE 11% more CPU for an FM9 Turbo, rather than a generic "better".

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I wonder if those of us who frequent forums and discuss the possibilities and/or potential flaws of a yet to be released product/firmware are projecting our perception on the market at large?
Where as, the vast majority of current Kemper users and future Kemper buyers are oblivious to the discussion and won’t be affected by the lack of explanation of mkI vs mkII.

The attention span of gear geeks like us has room for investing in speculation where perhaps the vast majority of players do not.
There is a reason the population is swayed much more by tic tok than hour long documentaries….
We, the few, are talking about it like we know the future while most of our peers that that might have noticed the discussion have simple reaction to it: “Is it out yet?” “No?” [End reaction]

Despite our best predictions, when it actually happens, a series of short videos showcasing enthusiasm for the ‘upgraded hardware’ might well unleash an ocean of positive attention that washes away the little puddle of piss we are standing around. The might be why Kemper hasn’t rushed to explain away what they perceive as a non problem.

 

[laxu]

Fire sale?

 

[Dimiguitar]

Despite our best predictions, when it actually happens, a series of short videos showcasing enthusiasm for the ‘upgraded hardware’ might well unleash an ocean of positive attention that washes away the little puddle of piss we are standing around. The might be why Kemper hasn’t rushed to explain away what they perceive as a non problem.

What would they showcase that's about upgraded hardware though? (If that's what you mean).

I sure as hell hope they understand enough about human psychology/people's perception not to make a video about the slanted front as a core innovation or something. The comments on that video would be worse than the initial MKII announcement clip.

If there's hidden processing power people haven't uncovered somehow, and that becomes a point of focus, ok. But it would be surprising considering you can't run dual profiles, etc etc.

If it's about the new profiling, sure. That will probably usher in a relative wave of positivity. I believe it'll immediately be met by the opposite if people do tests and it sucks, but I think that's unlikely to happen. They've had ample time to work on improving the profiling, and there's several examples out there of people doing an overall better job than them.

That said, I think even people who aren't gear geeks generally do some market research. If they see MKII doesn't offer much that's competitive to other new units, aside from price considerations, why buy?

If anything, I would imagine something like the new helix, with their fancy marketing, to be much more enticing, even if more expensive, for many non gear geeks.

 

[Sascha Franck]

not to make a video about the slanted front as a core innovation or something.

That'd be a video I'd defenitely wanted to watch, though.

 

[Dimiguitar]

That said, I think even people who aren't gear geeks generally do some market research. If they see MKII doesn't offer much that's competitive to other new units, aside from price considerations, why buy?

To add to my post: I meant competitive aside from the updated profiling, assuming it hangs with other units and software.

All that said, I am actually someone who would consider the MKII Kemper, assuming amazing accuracy. Accuracy was always my problem with the Kemper, whether this is deemed reasonable or not.

When it comes to other features, I don't really require much. My chains are super simple even on fractal units. I rarely use any effects, dual chains, or anything like that. The archaic display doesn't bother me either, and liquid profiling tweaking using the amp-like knobs is great and makes profiles quite flexible.

But I would imagine 1) many gear geeks to have more complicated requirements, accuracy aside and 2) the average consumer to be more wowed over by what several other units offer at this point.

The big selling point (I believe) for Kemper could be accuracy that trounces everything. But then again every time I mention accuracy, there's people saying it doesn't matter to them. Not sure what to think.

 

[madmarcus1960]

Since the new profiling is most likely being offloaded to a computer to get higher, more NAM/Tonex resolution, we will have to wait to see if the hardware warrants the pricing. Upon receiving the KPP pricing email, it was an obvious FU (from the EU) to the NO POLITICS.
I bought a KPP after selling my entire Toaster/Ritter amp/twin KONE/remote setup to a friend. I had so many profiles that it made sense to at least get a flyrig sized unit, and I maxed it out. The money for me wasn't an object as I'm always flipping equipment and has a $$ pool for GASing.
I have always liked the Kemper sound. I'm a clean EOB, light OD, player. I agree it can struggle with high gain, but I've also heard a few high gain profiles that I liked, but what do O know,not my lane. I believe for the most part the FX are top notch, delays and verbs anyway. I do not use a lot more than that.
If offloading the profiling gives us competetive performance, I won't regret the purchase.
I also own an AXE3 and a Tonex Big, but they all serve different purposes in my world.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

would they showcase that's about upgraded hardware though? (If that's what you mean).

What I mean is when the completed project is actually available Kemper will cause videos to show up showcasing players enjoying the product.

That will get the attention of all the non forum dwelling players who might want to buy it. Until then only a small sub set have any interest in listening to speculation on the internet about what might be bad about something that isn’t even really out there.

My post was me asking if we gear geeks aren’t making a wrong assumption that the market is now abandoning Kemper. I ask this because I believe the market is so much larger than the little group of people currently watching this unfold.
The market at large doesn’t even know this discussion is taking place. I think the impact of the mkII upgrade on the market, be it positive or negative, won’t happen until the product exists.

I also wonder if the only reason mkII was done is logistics forced Kemper to choose a different cpu and by doing that they realized there was going to be low hanging fruit (greater capability/ new profiling improvements, new speaker cab implementation effects slots etc). So, if inventory of parts was low and they needed to make the internal components change in order to continue production why not make the most of it. But that may have put the new paint job out the door before the software changes were ready. What to do? Let the forumites grumble while the die hard buy the mkII out of love for Kemper and then just shut up until the software can drop and then start the real campaign to introduce the mkII update to the marketplace.

 

[Jarick]

What I mean is when the completed project is actually available Kemper will cause videos to show up showcasing players enjoying the product.

That will get the attention of all the non forum dwelling players who might want to buy it. Until then only a small sub set have any interest in listening to speculation on the internet about what might be bad about something that isn’t even really out there.

My post was me asking if we gear geeks aren’t making a wrong assumption that the market is now abandoning Kemper. I ask this because I believe the market is so much larger than the little group of people currently watching this unfold.
The market at large doesn’t even know this discussion is taking place. I think the impact of the mkII upgrade on the market, be it positive or negative, won’t happen until the product exists.

IMO there's no way anything Kemper does with the Mk2 that will get the majority of forum users and gear nerds (often the same people) to jump on board. For people that surf the adrenaline rush of new gear, using something that looks like 15 year old technology is a complete non-starter. They'd much rather have the Kemper Mk1 under the hood of a new device that has a big color touch screen and a sleek form factor.

That's not to say the Kemper is leading the pack on sound quality either...the new Tonex profiling is pulling them even farther away and that was with existing hardware. A lot of people who loved the Kemper capture concept have already moved on to Tonex which is smaller, cheaper, higher fidelity, and has a software plugin. Or to Quad Cortex or Fractal.

I think it's very possible Kemper is realizing they misjudged the market. They released a really revolutionary product many years ago and enjoyed being at the top of the food chain for a while. They heard a demand for an all in one floorboard and did eventually release the Stage. IMO the problem is they waited far too long to release the small Player and when they did charged too much money (especially with the expansions).

The people who are going to be into Mk2 are the people who have the Kemper workflow fully dialed in for their needs, or the people who made the jump to digital with Kemper and have no desire to try anything else. There's almost no marketing or buzz for Kemper anymore because that's all shifted to other brands. In 2025 people don't just blindly walk into a music store to figure out what they want to buy. They are bombarded with advertisements and influencers and reviews and forum chatter and reddit posts, and there's almost nothing out there on the Kemper.

For me that's the real conversation to have, not pages of chatter about a Facebook post on the face angle or trying to dissect a press release or post someone made on a forum back in 2016.

 

[hunter]

Dude! Back when I had my Kemper and decided to sell it (to JT by the way, lol), it wasn’t because I didn’t like the black-box profiling, or limited effects, or different workflow, or the cumbersome librarian and online editing features (at the time), or the other HW limitations…

It was the angle of the faceplate! Just couldn’t get past that.

But now that they’ve changed that - I’M BACK BABY!!



/sarcasm lmao

A slightly different angle can make a BIG difference ... in some life situations

 

[madmarcus1960]

Only issue with Tonex is that it is not as of yet an all in one device. If you want FX of equal quality you need to go outside the IKM world and spend some $$. Tonex and a VP4 = ~ same as KPP maxed, Tonex w/H90 = > KPP or a used FM3T, Tonex and the appropriate Strymon collection = >> either.
If IKM make an Tonex/Amplitube FX modeler for a reasonable price, boom!
As for L6, I've never really liked their FX and I've never need the top of game utility they've always offered.

It's a great problem to have, being a guitarist/bassist these days. There are a lot of choice to satifiy everyone.

 

[paisleywookiee]

While that may be true, you're also highly likely to see Cliff or Eric discussing it in a post and offering more detail than a simple spec sheet would give. I'm quite certain for every Turbo or MKII release Fractal has had, Cliff has gone into detail about why it was necessary and you'll now precisely what is offered by the new unit, IE 11% more CPU for an FM9 Turbo, rather than a generic "better".

Also, the FM9 is still receiving the same firmware updates as the MkII.

 

[Tanax]

I don't know the situation in the US, but on Thomann, the Player is still in #10 sales rank. That's pretty high. Not sure what that translates to in units sold. And that's just one store of course. Worth mentioning though is that both of NDSP units are ahead, as well as Line6 Helix LT and Fender Tonemaster Pro. Funnily enough, Kemper Stage is in sales rank #7, so it's bought more often than the Player.

 

[Dimiguitar]

My post was me asking if we gear geeks aren’t making a wrong assumption that the market is now abandoning Kemper. I ask this because I believe the market is so much larger than the little group of people currently watching this unfold.

They're clearly still selling units. I think they've built a strong reputation through the years. I agree with you that it's hard to know what happens in a market overall just by looking up specific forums.

On the other hand, the reception that I've seen online to pre-new profiling MKII seems to be rather universally critical. I guess we'll see what happens once the helix stadium units come out, and when IK multimedia releases an all-in-one device, which will add another layer of competition against Kemper.

And of course the new profiling better be amazing.

 

[paisleywookiee]

In Chicago area, I've not seen a Kemper in quite awhile. People have moved on to Fractal FM9's and Quad Cortex, with a lot of boards built around HX Stomps too.. Any of this is anecdotal, but even from non-gear nerd types, they've got no interest in Kemper. Everyone, nerd or not, seems to be aware of Fractal, Helix, and Quad Cortex, with Kemper being seen as "old and outdated".

 

[Antipodes]

In Chicago area, I've not seen a Kemper in quite awhile. People have moved on to Fractal FM9's and Quad Cortex, with a lot of boards built around HX Stomps too.. Any of this is anecdotal, but even from non-gear nerd types, they've got no interest in Kemper. Everyone, nerd or not, seems to be aware of Fractal, Helix, and Quad Cortex, with Kemper being seen as "old and outdated".

You rang?

 

[PorcinePicker]

In Chicago area, I've not seen a Kemper in quite awhile. People have moved on to Fractal FM9's and Quad Cortex, with a lot of boards built around HX Stomps too.. Any of this is anecdotal, but even from non-gear nerd types, they've got no interest in Kemper. Everyone, nerd or not, seems to be aware of Fractal, Helix, and Quad Cortex, with Kemper being seen as "old and outdated".

From my time gigging in the Chicago area, I remember a lot of Line 6 products. I don't recall seeing a single QC. No Fractal products either, aside from the one I was using. I always felt like I must be the only one, and got a fair number of questions about what I was using. I did see Kempers, but those were usually with touring bands from out of town. Things must have changed.

 

[paisleywookiee]

You rang?

To whom am I ringing?