Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Gary_W]

I’m a long time member on the official Kemper forum and their social media post focusing on the new panel as a benefit caused me to ask a direct question over there - ‘can you please confirm if a any of the electronics inside is different’.

I think it’s a fair question to ask - they’re saying on the website that there’s processing advantages with mk2 which give the benefits of faster boot up, the fixed fx slots, the new profiling (when it comes). On the forum, they’ve said none of this is possible within the Mk1. If you put two and two together in a friendly way, that *should* mean that something inside has changed. I really hope it has and I really hope they actually say ‘we’ve upgraded *this chip and this chip so it’s now x amount faster’. Then everyone could move on from the belief that it’s 100% the same…. If it *is* 100% the same, that makes it a business choice to not make these things available to mk1 owners rather than ‘we cannot because of hardware constraints’. Entirely fair enough but again say clearly that you’ve chosen not to rather than ‘it can’t be done’.

I’m still really hoping something inside has changed because the truth will out at some point and the optics of it being identical would be pretty awful. I know they’re legendarily stoic in their communication style but, if they have indeed updated *anything* inside electronically they really do need to say so asap. Every further day of silence (boosted by social media posts waxing lyrical about a slightly more sloped front) is another day of potential customers believing the worst. It would be so easy to put an end to that by simply saying something.

 

[Dimiguitar]

I’m a long time member on the official Kemper forum and their social media post focusing on the new panel as a benefit caused me to ask a direct question over there - ‘can you please confirm if a any of the electronics inside is different’.

I think it’s a fair question to ask - they’re saying on the website that there’s processing advantages with mk2 which give the benefits of faster boot up, the fixed fx slots, the new profiling (when it comes). On the forum, they’ve said none of this is possible within the Mk1. If you put two and two together in a friendly way, that *should* mean that something inside has changed. I really hope it has and I really hope they actually say ‘we’ve upgraded *this chip and this chip so it’s now x amount faster’. Then everyone could move on from the belief that it’s 100% the same…. If it *is* 100% the same, that makes it a business choice to not make these things available to mk1 owners rather than ‘we cannot because of hardware constraints’. Entirely fair enough but again say clearly that you’ve chosen not to rather than ‘it can’t be done’.

I’m still really hoping something inside has changed because the truth will out at some point and the optics of it being identical would be pretty awful. I know they’re legendarily stoic in their communication style but, if they have indeed updated *anything* inside electronically they really do need to say so asap. Every further day of silence (boosted by social media posts waxing lyrical about a slightly more sloped front) is another day of potential customers believing the worst. It would be so easy to put an end to that by simply saying something.

I wouldn't expect a meaningful answer, if I was you, but who knows.

 

[LP59]

I’m a long time member on the official Kemper forum and their social media post focusing on the new panel as a benefit caused me to ask a direct question over there - ‘can you please confirm if a any of the electronics inside is different’.

I think it’s a fair question to ask - they’re saying on the website that there’s processing advantages with mk2 which give the benefits of faster boot up, the fixed fx slots, the new profiling (when it comes). On the forum, they’ve said none of this is possible within the Mk1. If you put two and two together in a friendly way, that *should* mean that something inside has changed. I really hope it has and I really hope they actually say ‘we’ve upgraded *this chip and this chip so it’s now x amount faster’. Then everyone could move on from the belief that it’s 100% the same…. If it *is* 100% the same, that makes it a business choice to not make these things available to mk1 owners rather than ‘we cannot because of hardware constraints’. Entirely fair enough but again say clearly that you’ve chosen not to rather than ‘it can’t be done’.

I’m still really hoping something inside has changed because the truth will out at some point and the optics of it being identical would be pretty awful. I know they’re legendarily stoic in their communication style but, if they have indeed updated *anything* inside electronically they really do need to say so asap. Every further day of silence (boosted by social media posts waxing lyrical about a slightly more sloped front) is another day of potential customers believing the worst. It would be so easy to put an end to that by simply saying something.

There's no need to ask Kemper that question. All you have to do is look inside your Mk2, or watch a teardown video.

It is not 100% the same. The controller co-processor has changed and that's why you get faster boot time and 2 more usb channels. Those benefits are only on the toaster though, the Stage already had that. I think what you're really asking about is the DSP processor used for effects and profiling. That has not changed, and probably never will, because Kemper is so tightly tied to that architecture.

As for whether the Mk1 could run fixed effects and the new profiling, they haven't exactly said it "can't" do it, only that it "won't". If you're looking for some independent way to confirm that it can't, I don't see how that's possible. You'll have to trust whatever Kemper tells you about that specific issue.

 

[BenIfin]

All I'm really saying is lets hear and compare and then judge the new system once it out ... as opposed to saying its "going to be shit" before anyone has even demo'd it or played it or reported on it.

But I do get all the ribbing they are getting in the meantime ..... which is all of their own doing.

 

[Chocol8]

Y

All I'm really saying is lets hear and compare and then judge the new system once it out ... as opposed to saying its "going to be shit" before anyone has even demo'd it or played it or reported on it.

But I do get all the ribbing they are getting in the meantime ..... which is all of their own doing.

The MKii is out and 100% deserves the criticism.

No one is really talking about the new profiler tech other than them walking back their claims and the absurd 100,000 points of light silliness. Maybe their new capture tech will be almost as good as the new Tonex and NAM, but right now it’s vaporware. Closer to Atomic than anything else.

 

[BenIfin]

.... Maybe their new capture tech will be almost as good as the new Tonex and NAM, but right now it’s vaporware

But it is however %100 coming .... it has been announced and the hardware for it is here already ...... it is in testing with several key Profile makers who have clearly signed water-tight NDA's ..... it is definitely not vaporware.

The bit no-one knows is will it be worse, similar, the same or better than current MK1 Profiling or the current "leaders" like Tonex and NAM (?)

Im just saying lets not dismiss it or crap-shit on it until we know if it deserves to be crap-shit on.

 

[Chocol8]

But it is however %100 coming .... it has been announced and the hardware for it is here already ...... it is in testing with several key Profile makers who have clearly signed water-tight NDA's ..... it is definitely not vaporware.

The bit no-one knows is will it be worse, similar, the same or better than current MK1 Profiling or the current "leaders" like Tonex and NAM (?)

Im just saying lets not dismiss it or crap-shit on it until we know if it deserves to be crap-shit on.

Atomic had software in advanced stages and testing that never materialized. NDSP as well. I am sorry, but until it ships, I have zero faith in anything from Kemper.

 

[Gary_W]

There's no need to ask Kemper that question. All you have to do is look inside your Mk2, or watch a teardown video.

It is not 100% the same. The controller co-processor has changed and that's why you get faster boot time and 2 more usb channels. Those benefits are only on the toaster though, the Stage already had that. I think what you're really asking about is the DSP processor used for effects and profiling. That has not changed, and probably never will, because Kemper is so tightly tied to that architecture.

As for whether the Mk1 could run fixed effects and the new profiling, they haven't exactly said it "can't" do it, only that it "won't". If you're looking for some independent way to confirm that it can't, I don't see how that's possible. You'll have to trust whatever Kemper tells you about that specific issue.

I can’t tear down my mk2 as I don’t have one and am highly unlikely to get one now. I haven’t watched a tear down video but will take the advice and go do that. I’m simply trying to ask the company for information about their product whilst saying ‘you do realise that users will fill in the silence with their own stories - why don’t you actually put things straight so you can control the stories to some extent’.

If what you’re saying regarding the stage is correct then there would be no reason mk1 stage couldn’t be upgraded other than the will to do it. Again that’s why it’s important that they communicate.

 

[BenIfin]

Atomic had software in advanced stages and testing that never materialized. NDSP as well. I am sorry, but until it ships, I have zero faith in anything from Kemper.

Comparing Atomic to Kemper is like comparing Sandpaper to Pizza.

Straight up .... do you seriously think there is any chance whatsoever that CK / Kemper will not release the new Profiling Engine ?? ..... in coming weeks or perhaps longer ?

I just cant even conceive of why you would even think this might be the case ?? given everything we know.

 

[Gary_W]

But it is however %100 coming .... it has been announced and the hardware for it is here already ...... it is in testing with several key Profile makers who have clearly signed water-tight NDA's ..... it is definitely not vaporware.

The bit no-one knows is will it be worse, similar, the same or better than current MK1 Profiling or the current "leaders" like Tonex and NAM (?)

Im just saying lets not dismiss it or crap-shit on it until we know if it deserves to be crap-shit on.

I’m not dismissing it at all - I genuinely hope they come out with something fantastic. My issue now really is the communication which has always been bad but a wall of silence plus a social media post about a bendy face plate really isn’t helping the wait!

There is the genuine belief out in the wild that the electronics hardware is the same. In a reply to my post above, another member here is saying that a tear down video shows the stage mk1 = stage mk2 and that there’s no processing difference mk1 to mk2 toaster (just a comms board). If that’s 100% correct, it’s not great to have been telling Mk1 folks they can’t upgrade to the new features because of ‘hardware’. Because of the posts out there claiming it’s the same, they need to comment….. The longer they take to comment, the worse it gets - it just takes them to officially say ‘actually, that’s not right - of course it’s new and here’s what’s changed’.

 

[laxu]

There is the genuine belief out in the wild that the electronics hardware is the same. In a reply to my post above, another member here is saying that a tear down video shows the stage mk1 = stage mk2 and that there’s no processing difference mk1 to mk2 toaster (just a comms board). If that’s 100% correct, it’s not great to have been telling Mk1 folks they can’t upgrade to the new features because of ‘hardware’. Because of the posts out there claiming it’s the same, they need to comment….. The longer they take to comment, the worse it gets - it just takes them to officially say ‘actually, that’s not right - of course it’s new and here’s what’s changed’.

Teardown videos say the main processor is the same, but the "side processor", however it is used, is a more capable NXP processor than on the MK1. Still not exactly a powerhouse though.

With the main DSP being the same, I would not be surprised if the new modeling is primarily a MK2 exclusive feature not due to capability, but to sell MK2 units.

Companies far bigger than Kemper do this sort of thing all the time, e.g you can look at Apple gating their latest OS versions to specific products because they don't want to support a technically capable enough, but 7+ years old iPad Pro or Mac.

I don't even blame Kemper too much for it, because they've given MK1 owners their money's worth and then some with like 12 years of support.

 

[Chocol8]

do you seriously think there is any chance whatsoever that CK / Kemper will not release the new Profiling Engine ??

Yep! I think with the subsequent news from Line 6 and Tonex, they might realize what they have is not good enough and they might throw in the towel, or they might delay it it significantly, or might just release half baked crap and call it a day. I mean, see Virus 2.0 and all the statements Christoph has made over the last decade plus about gen 2 Kemper. Its not a huge leap to see this might not happen as you seem to expect.

 

[AlbertA]

So will Fractal or NDSP be the next one to rain on their parade?

My guess is that Fractal is probably a good 1.5-2 years out for their next gen platform.

 

[BenIfin]

I’m not dismissing it at all - I genuinely hope they come out with something fantastic. My issue now really is the communication which has always been bad but a wall of silence plus a social media post about a bendy face plate really isn’t helping the wait!

There is the genuine belief out in the wild that the electronics hardware is the same. In a reply to my post above, another member here is saying that a tear down video shows the stage mk1 = stage mk2 and that there’s no processing difference mk1 to mk2 toaster (just a comms board). If that’s 100% correct, it’s not great to have been telling Mk1 folks they can’t upgrade to the new features because of ‘hardware’. Because of the posts out there claiming it’s the same, they need to comment….. The longer they take to comment, the worse it gets - it just takes them to officially say ‘actually, that’s not right - of course it’s new and here’s what’s changed’.

I agree with your sentiment

 

[BenIfin]

Yep! I think with the subsequent news from Line 6 and Tonex, they might realize what they have is not good enough and they might throw in the towel, or they might delay it it significantly, or might just release half baked crap and call it a day. I mean, see Virus 2.0 and all the statements Christoph has made over the last decade plus about gen 2 Kemper. Its not a huge leap to see this might not happen as you seem to expect.

Well .... we''ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Communication from Kemper has always being wonky.

Remember the editor thread? For how many years did that go on, with people asking stuff, getting no answers, and then even receiving warnings/bans for off topic posts, as if such a thread could just "stay on topic" for years and years, beating down the same horse?

I understand the expectation that the new profiling won't be much. I just know that this is Kemper. What seems common sense and to be expected (reasonably so), in several cases, is probably not how they think about things.

So, like I said. Wouldn't be surprised if the new profiling is indeed great. Also wouldn't be surprised if it isn't much better.

 

[LP59]

I can’t tear down my mk2 as I don’t have one and am highly unlikely to get one now. I haven’t watched a tear down video but will take the advice and go do that. I’m simply trying to ask the company for information about their product whilst saying ‘you do realise that users will fill in the silence with their own stories - why don’t you actually put things straight so you can control the stories to some extent’.

If what you’re saying regarding the stage is correct then there would be no reason mk1 stage couldn’t be upgraded other than the will to do it. Again that’s why it’s important that they communicate.

I'm very certain Kemper doesn't view the processor situation as the problem you seem to think it is. It has been widely known and discussed for months now that the DSP processor is unchanged in the Mk2. So what? Kemper's Virus was unchanged for 30 years. They view that as a badge of honor, not as a problem that needs to addressed with some kind of communication.

As for whether it would be possible to run the new profiling on a Mk1, it could be there are other factors that make that impractical, such as memory capacity. Again, we'll probably never know for certain, so you'll have to trust Kemper on that.

Even if it was possible to run the new profiling on a Mk1, I agree with Laxu. Can you really blame them for asking Mk1 customers to upgrade to a Mk2 after all these years?

 

[Fireproof]

Does anyone really give a shit about the new front plate?

Dude! Back when I had my Kemper and decided to sell it (to JT by the way, lol), it wasn’t because I didn’t like the black-box profiling, or limited effects, or different workflow, or the cumbersome librarian and online editing features (at the time), or the other HW limitations…

It was the angle of the faceplate! Just couldn’t get past that.

But now that they’ve changed that - I’M BACK BABY!!



/sarcasm lmao

 

[Gary_W]

I'm very certain Kemper doesn't view the processor situation as the problem you seem to think it is. It has been widely known and discussed for months now that the DSP processor is unchanged in the Mk2. So what? Kemper's Virus was unchanged for 30 years. They view that as a badge of honor, not as a problem that needs to addressed with some kind of communication.

As for whether it would be possible to run the new profiling on a Mk1, it could be there are other factors that make that impractical, such as memory capacity. Again, we'll probably never know for certain, so you'll have to trust Kemper on that.

Even if it was possible to run the new profiling on a Mk1, I agree with Laxu. Can you really blame them for asking Mk1 customers to upgrade to a Mk2 after all these years?

When you say it’s been ‘widely known’ please realise that the only people who have communicated this are *officially nothing to do with Kemper*. The company themself still have the headline ‘all new Mk2’ to introduce the product on their website. They then go on to talk about ‘more power’. It should not be up to users to find their own information from tear down videos to understand what they are getting for their money. If the mk1 and the mk2 are actually identical hardware-wise then it’s counter intuitive to ditch something that is physically the same.

I agree it’s entirely reasonable for them to ask people to go for a paid upgrade after all these years. What is less ok is the lack of clarity that surrounds the rest of it - is it ‘all new’ as they are saying or ‘all the same’ as you are saying. I actually think you are most likely correct. If the hardware is the same, they could have offered a paid upgrade for mk1 owners. Zero hardware cost for them and lots of happy Kemper users. Buying the same thing again, if that’s what’s actually happening here, needs quite the sales team to pull off without unhappy people and they are not doing a great job on the warm fuzzy feeling right now.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Interestingly enough the just lowered the price of the Player to €598 (plus 278 for level 2+33).
Which is with today’s exchange rather the same as the $698 in the US.
Fire sale?