Kemper Profiler MK 2

[DLC86]

For sure, launching (kind of, sort of) new hardware based on the promise of new software nobody has heard doesn’t leave much to talk about export the old software.

And despite that we made it to page 119 120

 

[Jarick]

That's a user issue.

Every other plugin works fine. Double checked the IO and that’s all good. It worked before and now after the update doesn’t work. Every time I launch Tonex there’s some new issue which is why I’ve barely used it.

 

[LP59]

I’m the only one apparently who’s using a Kemper and posting here.

You're not the only one. I am.

Until the new profiling is out there’s not much to talk about.

Yes, but contrast that with the Stadium. The Mk2 is actually shipping and has new features even though we're waiting for the new profiling, but the Stadium is not shipping. Yet the Kemper has a dramatically lower level of interest than the Stadium. It seems like there's a large difference in the amount of enthusiasm people have about the two.

 

[OneEng]

I've posted this before but it remains, to me, very unclear.

Does the MK2 have faster more powerful chips than the MK1 ?

Or is it just that - perhaps - the old chips were E.O.L - so the MK2 just has new replacements that are, in effect, the same as the MK1 in terms of raw processing power?

MK1 and MK2 have the EXACT same signal processing capabilities. The application processor is about 4 times faster which has lowered the boot time from ~1 min 20 sec (as measured by my stopwatch this morning) to ~ 20 sec.

My understanding is that the MKII has an extra one. So doing the math, I would say yes, it is faster. About twice as fast roughly.

Nope. It has the same amount but the application processor (the one that boots up and takes care of the screen and foot controller interface (among other things) has been improved. My BELIEF is that ONLY the application processor SOC (System on a chip) board has been changed, and IT plugs in with a DIMM slot (like the memory in your computer) so they LIKELY didn't even change the main board at all and use the same main board for MK1 as MK2 ..... which explains why there were NO improvements in the Rack and Toaster (like adding WiFi).

This is precisely why I really question the validity that the MK1 can’t run the new profiles, but I’m also not educated in the least bit on DSP or the architecture around that stuff. It just seems odd to me that while there’s no improvement to the audio processor, but the one that makes switching presets and boot times faster is the reason why the MK1 can’t run the new profiling.

Kemper ain’t saying shit, that’s for sure.

I agree. The only thing that makes any sense is that Kemper is planning a PAID upgrade to MK2 from MK1 that is a firmware only upgrade.

It seems likely the Mk1 is capable of running the new profiles, but we'll never know for sure. It's possible the Mk2 is simply a way to get existing Stage and Toaster customers to pay if they want the new profiling.

That is where my head is right now..... and honestly, if the new profiling adds something significant over the old, I have no problem paying for the update either.... but I can imagine that there will be a general outcry if this happens.

Considering the changing tone of the advertisement for MK2 on the Kemper website, I suspect the upgrade will be good, but will not meet the level of NAM ..... otherwise they would have stuck with the "most accurate" marketing.

Thanks. I would *guess* then that the reason the MK1 cannot *fully* run MK 2 Profiles is due deliberately coding the new MK2 Profiles to only run at a lower rez in the MK1 ... it would appear to me that there is no physical / technical / hardware problem ... just Kempers way of [potentially] forcing current MK1 owners to buy a MK2 if they want to run the MK2 Profiles in %100 full rez.

I am thinking that they are after paid upgrades (firmware only) to MK1. At this point in time, if I were to find I needed to shell out another $1400 to replace my MK1 rack with an MK2 (could keep my current FC as that hasn't changed either), I would likely be in the "fuck it" category and wait to see if Line 6 creates a rack version and FC of the stadium as this is my preferred gigging platform for setup and clean routing near my feet.

Because they want you to buy new hardware?

I am guessing paid firmware. They would make much more profit there than on selling new hardware IMO.

Since when was accurate a considered the most important part. With a tube amp it’s completely irrelevant. Yes models are supposed to be digital versions of actual amps but sounding good is all that matters. Kemper has a more amp like experience to the player than the others already.

I completely agree. Moreover, Kemper has the best workflow when performing live.

But if, in some magical way, MKII's 'proper' firmware comes out in the summer, and just absolutely tears new arseholes left, right, and centre, then I will be very intruiged to try one out. But if the reports on the ground are that this "new" capturing tech is just reheated MK1 tech, then I probably won't bother.

I think the truth will land somewhere between.

Kemper isn’t a modeler. It’s a profiler. Its only job is to be accurate to the source by its own definition. The last sentence is anecdotal. I couldn’t hear aliasing, still didn’t like the Kemper for the music I play. Low end sounded like stuffed buttholes.

Totally disagree. I haven't profiled anything since 2013 when I first bought my Kemper. Even then, I prefer other peoples captures of other amps for my gigs now. I suspect that >90% of Kemper owners NEVER make a profile (which further makes all the capture accuracy unimportant to most people).

This. If you have an amp sound you like, and want to capture it, you profile it.

If the profile is accurate, then you will like the sound. If it turns out different, you might like the sound, or you might not. Even if you prefer the different sound of the profile, it's not really helpful, because why capture the initial tone in the first place if you're after something different?

LOL. This assumes that you actually like the sound of the tube amp being profiled. You can modify a profile quite easily within Kemper in ways that improve the sound quality. The ability to tweak the profile in Kemper in ways that aren't possible on the real amp can lead to the phenomena where people prefer the Kemper to the original amp.

I've made blind tests where guitarists will pick Kemper over the real amp each time for "feel".

If Kemper gets more accurate, I wonder if people will actually prefer the results of the updated profiling vs the old one.

I seriously doubt anything will make me give up my Morgan AC20 rigs, so to your point, will it come down to which profile is better tweaked vs the one that is more accurately captured? My guess is YES.

The merry go round, goalpost shifting and cope is amazing. Just because the kemper isn’t accurate and is lesser than today’s profiling tech doesn’t mean
- it can’t be used for gigs
- can’t provide professional sound
- can’t be used on records
- can’t be preferable over original amps

Of course nothing is final it could really deliver on these promises, but we’ll wait for the verdict on that.

I find nothing to object to in your statement. All true in my book. I think that should their new profiling turn out to be the most accurate in the industry, it would indeed be a very good thing; however, I still maintain that the ability to tweak existing profiles (that others made) to your taste is more important.... and that most people will prefer a well tweaked MK1 profile even to the most accurate MK2 profile. Also, the effects chain and how it is tweaked also makes a big difference.

Sure. I mean, gunshots have been used on records in place of snares, so basically anything can be used to get "professional sound".
Maybe we should request a guns sub-forum btw.

Seems like this implies that Kemper is the equivalent of a jug band.... which it is decidedly not. Kemper can (and does) stand toe to toe with anything on the market in a live environment.

None of this has to do with aliasing or capturing accuracy, go have fun.
The kemper has plenty going for it as a workhorse gigging unit.

And this is where I live 99% of the time. I don't tweak my Kemper much. My band recently picked up "Shut up and Dance" in our set list so I had to create a rig that specifically had that guitar sound. Aside from this though, I have about 10-15 rigs I use for everything (I have a special rig for a very few songs that have special needs. "Money for Nothin" comes to mind as an example).

Profilers have one job and one job only: to accurately capture an amp.

Disagree completely. See my comments above.

What does it say about the level of interest generated by the Kemper Mk2, when out of 2400 comments here, maybe 12 of them concern the Mk2?

Now, here I agree with you. Kemper has totally botched their marketing IMO. For me (and those like me) it has never been about how accurately Kemper profiles an amp. All those other things are where Kemper should be focusing (and haven't).

It's like they really believe that their users are touring with Kemper because of its capture accuracy.

What would have turned my head for an MK2 would have been things like 2 inputs (like Stadium XL). Cool idea for that guitar switch over. Shoot, I could use 3 inputs live. A new foot controller with OLED scribble strips (color) would have been great! A song list manager with a "next song" button on the foot controller would be great (I currently maintain all my presets against songs in Excel which is starting to feel pretty archaic. Additionally as my eyes get crappier as I age, its increasingly hard to read my cheat sheets at my feet from a standing position.

These are the kinds of things that would make me shell out cash for an MKII Kemper (or any other device).

 

[laxu]

Yes, but contrast that with the Stadium. The Mk2 is actually shipping and has new features even though we're waiting for the new profiling, but the Stadium is not shipping. Yet the Kemper has a dramatically lower level of interest than the Stadium. It seems like there's a large difference in the amount of enthusiasm people have about the two.

Which is not surprising when the Stadium is meant to bring:

• New form factors more compact than Helix Floor/LT.
• New footswitching options.
• New user interface.
• New amp modeling.
• Wireless editing.
• Backing tracks with stem splitter.
• Automation features.
• Capture support in 2026.

Meanwhile Kemper MK2 is:

• Lighter weight chassis
• Faster boot times
• Some utility fx
• Upcoming capture quality improvement that requires a computer.

I think people would be more positive about it if they called it a Kemper 1.1 or something. I know Fractal has used a MK2 moniker for a "a little better stuff" type upgrades, but with Kemper having had the same hw for so long it feels like users want something more than that.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I couldn’t disagree more.

And I couldn’t disagree more with you on this. The Fractal feels, reacts, and sounds far better than the Kemper does.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

LOL. This assumes that you actually like the sound of the tube amp being profiled

Why would you profile an amp you don’t like the sound of? Much of the premise of the Kemper is dialing a sound in the studio, and then being able to use the Kemper to save that tone for later - overdubs, or to get “the same” tone a week or month or year later. For a while it was the best/only option for that, but even now I feel like ToneX would be more of a compromise than is necessary.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Totally disagree. I haven't profiled anything since 2013 when I first bought my Kemper. Even then, I prefer other peoples captures of other amps for my gigs now. I suspect that >90% of Kemper owners NEVER make a profile (which further makes all the capture accuracy unimportant to most people).

Never said anything about any of that. The stated job of a profiler is to make as close to perfect copy of an amp’s sound for use without the amp. Doesn’t matter who makes or uses or adjusts the profile later or why. That’s been the only thing I’ve said in regards to it. It’s not a point of contention unless you need to explain that it’s not accurate but it doesn’t matter to you because it sounds good to you. You liking and using it and using profiles of amps you don’t own doesn’t change what the idea is behind the technology, which is making as close to perfect a copy as possible of a specific setting on a 1/1 specific tube amp.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Round we go again. This has gone in circles enough times,

Of course it has.

read all the previous posts again

No need. Defenitely not.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The kemper has plenty going for it as a workhorse gigging unit.

But that seems to be offending to some folks.

 

[molul]

Low end sounded like stuffed buttholes.

Billy Corgan named his band from a similar sentence, y'know?

 

[Eagle]

And I couldn’t disagree more with you on this. The Fractal feels, reacts, and sounds far better than the Kemper does.

Kemper in the studio playing through the cab I just made a profile with and not moving anything is the closest feel to a real amp ( the one I just profiled) I’ve ever experienced from any digital platform.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Low end sounded like stuffed buttholes.

So what's the issue?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Kemper in the studio playing through the cab I just made a profile with and not moving anything is the closest feel to a real amp ( the one I just profiled) I’ve ever experienced from any digital platform.

Nowt wrong with enjoying it for what it is, but you're in for a treat when you try some of the more modern options

 

[Eagle]

Nowt wrong with enjoying it for what it is, but you're in for a treat when you try some of the more modern options

I have had all of them. I still have axe3 .

 

[Mongillo19]

I have had all of them. I still have axe3 .

I think he's talking about NAM loaders and even Tone X to an extent

 

[Eagle]

My X88ir pisses all of them.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

My X88ir pisses all of them.

Only if you want it to sound like an X88IR though,. Try capturing it on Kemper and NAM and see which feels (and sounds) better.

NAM and to a lesser extent ToneX are what consigned my Kemper to the proverbial trash can. Even ToneX has me questioning whether the juice is worth the squeeze, its a bit of a chore to make models for honestly.

 

[ian_dissonance]

But that seems to be offending to some folks.

It’s really not, though. Some people said “this part of the sound is not great” and then other people were like “we don’t care it’s great for gigging” and then the other people were like “sick, that’s not what I was talking about you walnut” and then the other other people were like “NOOOOOOOO THE KEMPER IS A GREAT LIVE TOOL!” and then we were like “Yes.”

 

[ian_dissonance]

So what's the issue?

I need it to sound like previously stuff and now wide open buttholes.