John Mayer & The Coming Simulacra

[FuzzyAce]

I'd kill to have Fractal Native. Insta-buy.
Maybe that's their next big announcement?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I realize all that. My son only uses plugins to record (my plugins). I'm just saying that while the modeling is good, it's not Fractal or Stadium level, so to me, it's still very much worthwhile to use hardware, even just for recording. Not to mention their way of bottling this effect with that plugin, but can't use it in another (without a DAW) is super annoying. That's what makes Amplitube and HX Native much more appealing to me personally.

Totally get it, but they’re very much personal opinions. I agree with many of them, too. Even if they address your own personal gripes on their plugins, it wouldn’t change the fact that their plugins are massively successful, influenced almost every other amp sim suite ever since, and brought a lot of people into modelling. They’re the de facto amp modelling plugins to a huge number of people, even if there is stuff out there that sounds better or has different features.

Spoiler: My personal opinion

I think their modelling is close enough to Fractal for me not to worry, with a much nicer experience to use in the studio. I like fractal more but barely use it because plugins are so much nicer and more convenient. I like line 6, and think their amp modelling is fantastic. But I don’t think their amp modelling is as good, for my tastes. Maybe Agoura will get there but right now it ain’t it

 

[Classic07]

I follow what Josh has written, and by extension Baudrillard as I haven't read his writings. I understand the implications of Josh's perspective too. What seems to have been missed is that it's simply being applied to a single piece of gear. Musicians all over the world have been using all kinds of tools trying replicate what they've heard on records, videos etc etc. and not what's actually coming out of the amp itself. How many players bought a Marshall trying to achieve original sounds they hear on records? The recorded sound isn't what came out of the amp.

How many players use pedals to change their Fender or Vox into Marshall etc etc? I'm not picking on Marshall as the gold standard, only a point of reference. How many try to emulate a specific delay sound with a completely different unit?

It's not new.

What's likely closer to events is that creative types have found something that works for them in certain scenarios and applying it. It's no different than amp manufacturers coming out with a new design and people running with it. It's a sound that didn't exist before and now it does.

I 100% get the opinion that valves are best. I much prefer the feel and experience of moving air, but surely creativity, expression and making music has to be the #1 goal?

 

[paisleywookiee]

Totally get it, but they’re very much personal opinions. I agree with many of them, too.

Seeing as how I didn't back them up with a scientific study or Gallup polls, I thought it was pretty clear it was my personal opinion. I'll see if I can correlate anything with People Familiar With The Matter, and see what that turns up.

 

[Classic07]

Seeing as how I didn't back them up with a scientific study or Gallup polls, I thought it was pretty clear it was my personal opinion. I'll see if I can correlate anything with People Familiar With The Matter, and see what that turns up.

It's stats. You can make them say what you want. Use a pie chart as everyone loves a bit of pie.

 

[paisleywookiee]

It's stats. You can make them say what you want. Use a pie chart as everyone loves a bit of pie.

Opinions are like assholes, but everyone loves pie. Charts.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I 100% get the opinion that valves are best. I much prefer the feel and experience of moving air, but surely creativity, expression and making music has to be the #1 goal?

I agree, but I’d say a good percentage of guitar players out there on the world don’t create much other than credit card bills and annoyed family members as they collect shit and butcher AC/DC. If “creatives” were the only market for this stuff the industry would be minuscule.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I think for the longest time modeling was seen more as a convenience vs. actual viable solution. Granted, some have been using amp plugins and modelers for 25+ years, and some of those are still viable to this day, but they weren't really seen as an industry standard for a long time. I think that has entirely shifted now. It coincides with how music is produced today as well. It has to have the ability to sound awesome + be ultimately convenient and user friendly. This was not the case 30+ years ago.

 

[Elf]

Very interesting reading, in some way is very interesting that even with his own JM NDSP, they are trying to duplicate sounds of his hits were some of those amps were never used back then.

 

[metropolis_4]

Devils advocate and all that, but Neural DSP really put amp modelling in front of a LOT more people who otherwise weren't interested - especially younger less experienced musicians who probably wouldn't have been in the market for any kind of HW modeller, let alone something as expensive as a Fractal. I know of a ton of band guys who just went straight from real amps->NDSP, and the gateway was trying NDSP plugins like Nameless, Nolly and Gojira. Thats taking nothing away from Fractal and their own merits and achievements, but they have barely even attempted to do that. There's a lot NDSP get right, that any perceived negative behaviour shouldn't get in the way of.

The part I was talking about was about amp modeling quality and authenticity, not market share.

This is the part that made me roll my eyes a little. Personally, I never heard anything in my QC that compared with what I heard in Fractal gear

 

[Lysander]

Ad copy for what? None of his company’s products are involved

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The part I was talking about was about amp modeling quality and authenticity, not market share.

This is the part that made me roll my eyes a little. Personally, I never heard anything in my QC that compared with what I heard in Fractal gear

View attachment 57837

Fair enough (I hadn’t read the copy). I do agree with you.

It does kind of read that “by the time NDSP came along, everyone had raised the bar”. Fractal has advanced a lot in the last few years - Cygnus really was a big step up and that was what, 2021? NDSP Nameless came out in 2018. QC capturing was a pretty noticeable step up on Kemper, NAM and ToneX improved on QC. I don’t have too much of an issue with what he says - When I think of 2016, I think of Kemper, AxeFX 2 and Helix. I think we’re generally speaking a stage ahead of that now, and that is the era from when NDSP showed up.

 

[Chocol8]

The part I was talking about was about amp modeling quality and authenticity, not market share.

This is the part that made me roll my eyes a little. Personally, I never heard anything in my QC that compared with what I heard in Fractal gear

View attachment 57837

Well, they specifically said capturing not modeling, and I think their V2 capturing really is as good of a digital simulation of an amp as you can find. I have no problem with them claiming it is closer to a real amp than Fractal, or even NAM at this point. I am not saying it is 100% definitely true, but it is definitely a legitimate argument.

 

[paisleywookiee]

The part I was talking about was about amp modeling quality and authenticity, not market share.

Yup, me too. I could give fuck-all about what the kids are using.

 

[newholland]

i guess i dont really care, cause in the end, if a tool works well or better than an older tool, if people whove used both prefer the super-real version and its more gratifying to play.. its a better tool for them.

i dont care what makes the sound if its good- but the marketing is just annoying. i use plugins. i use solid state amps. i use tube amps. i have microphones and cabs and IRs and direct box analog pedals. i use them if they work. i sound like me in every single event.
i dont aspire to 'the best thing'. just 'the best available thing'.