Is Glen right?

[Deadpan]

I’m not going to spoon feed you basic science. You still have the burden of proof backwards, and remain intentionally cryptic on your actual views/opinions for the sake of being argumentative. You have consistently through the thread commuted every fallacy you keep “calling out” and have been beyond evasive yourself. and at the end of the day don’t care enough to give a dissertation to someone that won’t be convinced either way. Read a book, i posted a great one a few pages back

Or even Google the subject for some research.

This has been entertaining though.

 

[pipelineaudio]

So that's a no, you are going to make claims and refuse to back them up and just insult instead.

Off to ignore land

 

[pipelineaudio]

I'll take the JREF Million now thanks

 

[spawnofthesith]

Off to ignore land

Thank god

 

[Piing]

So that's a no, you are going to make claims and refuse to back them up and just insult instead.

Off to ignore land

You are asking us to provide you with some kind of evidence, but there is nothing like experience and self-learning; discovering things by oneself.

As a matte of fact, empirical evidence acquired by observation or experimentation is a central part of the scientific method.

Do this:

1 - Go to a guitar shop
2 - Choose a good "non-destroyer" tube amplifier and dial a nice and smooth close-to-breakup tone
3- Try different guitars without changing the amp settings
4 - Listen

And I will abandon the discussion here. Whatever conclusions you arrive after that experiment, it not of my business. I have mine after my own experience.

After all that has already been said, I don't know how else we can help you

 

[woody]

[snip]

I would say that from all the evidence that has been presented (and I have begged and pleaded many times in this very thread for evidence to the contrary) that if you put the same pickups, with the same electronics, on the same place along the string, at the same distance from the string, The wood or lack of it has not been shown thus far to make any difference to the electrical signal coming out of the guitar's output jack

Following that logic, every two Telecasters (to keep it simple) from the same production run should sound identical.
That's something you can meaningfully put to the test in any bigger guitar store in a couple of minutes.

Let's even say to swap the complete wiring and to set them up identically, to eliminate parts tolerances.
Then even different production runs and materials should not matter.
They do, though.
Some pick ups work well in one Tele, some pick ups work well in another.
The results are not the same.
And I have swapped complete wiring harnesses years ago, out of curiosity.

 

[woody]

What was Jim Lill's fundamental flaw in his premise?

Which law of physics states that the construction material of a guitar must have some sort of effect on the electrical output? I could even go and grant that that statement was true and you would still have all the work left to do to show that it would be audible.

I don't think there is any reason to grant that of course, but the point still stands.

If you put a P-Bass pick up into a J-Bass the J would still have the J-inherent wolf tones.
Ask a competent luthier.

 

[pipelineaudio]

You don't need to ask a competent luthier, anyone can measure it themselves with free software like REW. I don't see that this addresses the question "What was Jim Lill's fundamental flaw in his premise?"

 

[pipelineaudio]

Following that logic, every two Telecasters (to keep it simple) from the same production run should sound identical.
That's something you can meaningfully put to the test in any bigger guitar store in a couple of minutes.

Let's even say to swap the complete wiring and to set them up identically, to eliminate parts tolerances.
Then even different production runs and materials should not matter.
They do, though.
Some pick ups work well in one Tele, some pick ups work well in another.
The results are not the same.
And I have swapped complete wiring harnesses years ago, out of curiosity.

This is the part where you are supposed to present the evidence, not restate the claim

I've tried to be extremely specific with what I'm asking, but (and not saying you did this) it keeps going back to feelings, feelings about me or glenn or jim lill, or feelings about the guitar or anecdotes.

The swaps you've done would actually be very good evidence and exactly what I'd love to see

 

[woody]

You don't need to ask a competent luthier, anyone can measure it themselves with free software like REW. I don't see that this addresses the question "What was Jim Lill's fundamental flaw in his premise?"

The fundamental flaw in his methodology(!) is to provide anecdotal evidence and to extrapolate from there.
How can we be sure that another set of work benches wouldn't provide a totally different result? He tries to prove a positive and this is just not how science works.

If you want to test the premise "tone is all in the pick ups" you need to design your experiments around breaking that premise.
Finding two different Teles that don't sound the same would be a prove that this premise does not check out.
If you can't create any circumstances whatsoever that violates this premise with extensive testing, you may call it a theory.

I much prefer written communication over making videos, and I trust my luthier more than I trust Jim Lill or Glen Fricker.
And videos aren't any less anecdotal than forum posts.
If you are so interested to see an electronic swap between guitars, then go for it.
It's not that difficult to do and much more informative and fun if you do it yourself.

 

[mbenigni]

Glen is never right. Terrible youtuber.

Ah, "Glen". Mystery solved.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Ah, "Glen". Mystery solved.

If I wanted to get yelled at; I'd just drive over and visit my dad.

 

[Orvillain]

He's just put out a video saying the Kemper is dead. Even I wouldn't go that far for my clickbait!

 

[la szum]

This thread and the NDSP Rant thread pushing 100 pages are both inherently toxic.

 

[mbenigni]

This thread and the NDSP Rant thread pushing 100 pages are both inherently toxic.

Everywhere I go, there I am.

 

[pipelineaudio]

If you are so interested to see an electronic swap between guitars, then go for it.
It's not that difficult to do and much more informative and fun if you do it yourself.

I’ve done it and also done a similar test by sticking a bridge and tuner on a chain link fence. Nobody was able to ABX reliably between any of the three. But I’m your case you found a difference so I’d love to see that data

 

[pipelineaudio]

He's just put out a video saying the Kemper is dead. Even I wouldn't go that far for my clickbait!

Don’t worry we already learned that “modeling is dead” from the TJXL video

 

[Piing]

I’ve done it and also done a similar test by sticking a bridge and tuner on a chain link fence. Nobody was able to ABX reliably between any of the three. But I’m your case you found a difference so I’d love to see that data

Why do you insist in seeing "our data"? Have you already performed the self-enlightening experience suggested on post #145? You didn't even replied the question about you guitars and your equipment on post #138 And you have no interest on data and conclusions derived fom physics and electronics principles, given your rebuke of what was offered on post #131

You seem to rely on YouTubers and on your expectation that we provide you some evidence, which could be doctored to fool you, so do not trust us. Go to play different guitars and find the truth by yourself!! We cannot help you

 

[Piing]

You want data? Here it is.

These are scientific research papers on the study of wood acoustic properties

​

Acoustic Studies on Wood

Frequency responses of wood for musical instruments in relation to the vibrational properties

What do we know on '' resonance wood '' properties

Assessment of resonance wood quality by comparing its physical and histological properties

Differences in the Modal and Structural Parameters of Resonance and Non-Resonance Wood of Spruce (Picea abies L.)

I do not expect you to believe or read any of that, though. So better plug some different guitars into a non-chainsaw amp and find it by yourself

 

[Deadpan]

You want data? Here it is.

These are scientific research papers on the study of wood acoustic properties

​

Acoustic Studies on Wood

Frequency responses of wood for musical instruments in relation to the vibrational properties

What do we know on '' resonance wood '' properties

Assessment of resonance wood quality by comparing its physical and histological properties

Differences in the Modal and Structural Parameters of Resonance and Non-Resonance Wood of Spruce (Picea abies L.)

I do not expect you to believe or read any of that, though. So better plug some different guitars into a non-chainsaw amp and find it by yourself

Let me guess, you used Google? Haha!