IK Multimedia TONEX

For the record, this doesn't happen often. Usually I can emulate captures fairly well with good modelling units. Brown packs have been an exception.

But just another experience with tonex: spent quite a bit of time again dialing in a VH4 (online through my friend who has one lol). He finally shot the capture with my desired settings. Amp only.

Sounds and feels amazing. That, while up to now fractal VH4 silver has been my go-to amp for a lot of heavy tones.

So I compared the capture vs my fractal VH4 preset. Did a lot of tweaking, which usually isn't required. By the end, there was still a considerable difference between the tonex capture and the fractal VH4.

The fractal sounded somehow garbled in the low end. Best I can describe it is like a hairball a cat spit out, comparatively speaking. Input cuts didn't really bridge the gap, neither did all kinds of master vol settings, advanced settings. EQ matching brought them closer, but the tonex capture still felt much better to play through.

I'm not saying the fractal sounds bad. The above comments are in comparison to the tonex capture. But so far, the tonex VH4 is my favorite diezel tone. It's replacing a fractal tone I was very confident about for ages.

The annoying part is I can't quite replicate this on the fractal lel. So that's an example where tonex one takes the lead. Maybe I have more success with fresh ears, today, because I'd like this tone on the fractal as well.

Fractal has said their next gen products will support NAM. I think you can emulate most tones very well with such modelling, but then there's cases like this, where nothing seems to bridge the gap.

I continue to be impressed by tonex one. And that's from someone who shot a million Kemper captures, ending up just using modelling for years, because it just sounded better, felt better, and was much more convenient.
 
Fwiw, I'm in fact considering a 3rd TXO already. Could turn out that I really want a separated on for all clean sounds on my main board and then I'd need another one for all additional stuff.

---

And then, @IK Multimedia, pretty pretty please talk your developers into any kind of a master output control, following what @laxu had already mentioned. At least when running as a class compliant USB device, it should be controllable via macOS' and Windows' onboard master output level tools.
I had 1-2 hours to kill backstage yesterday and was sitting there with my Macbook and the second TXO pedal to jam a bit. It was incredibly annoying that I couldn't just globally adjust the output (headphone) level. Having to do this within each and every application separately is just horrible. And it's not even possible for, say, the macOS Finder's preview player (which I'm using all the time).
I know there's tools allowing you to work around that (I once had one named "Ground Control" installed on my old Mac), but those shouldn't be a requirement.
 
Sascha Franck said:
Maybe this would be a good start (should take you to a list of kinda "embedded" and supported things):
github.com

GitHub - Builty/TonexOneController: Embedded controller for the IK Multimedia Tonex One guitar pedal

Embedded controller for the IK Multimedia Tonex One guitar pedal - Builty/TonexOneController
github.com github.com
Click to expand...
Looking through the docs and found the 4 inch screen with board and case for around 70 eurobucks on Amazon. Looks pretty straight forward with that model, it can take 9V power if I strip a cable so I might get one.
I have dabbled with Raspberry Pi and some other microcontrollers and with just having to strip some cables it looks fairly unchallenging and fun to get it working. I also got a couple of Ampero Switch’es lying about I could use for it, plus the BOSS wireless! The BOSS can also be connected to my Stomp via cables MIDI…

Aaaand now rethinking my entire pedalboard/life…
 
Progressive_disclosure said:
plus the BOSS wireless! The BOSS can also be connected to my Stomp via cables MIDI…
Click to expand...

Is the Boss capable of a) sending both via BT and wired simultaneously and b) sending out all kinda messages? Such as sending a PC via BT and a CC via wired MIDI? That's actually what I could *really* use for a setup I'm having in my mind.

Progressive_disclosure said:
Aaaand now rethinking my entire pedalboard/life…
Click to expand...

That's precisely what I was doing during the last weeks. With the big board I'm already close to complete happiness, but I want a smaller rendition as well. So far, what I think would be ideal would be the second TXO running into the Stomp (I'd rather not use in it the Stomp's loop for reasons...). with some choice pedals added on the front end.

For this to happen I would basically need two things:

- A MIDI controller doing what I mentioned above. The only proper method to switch things on the TXO is via PCs and the only proper way for me to work with the Stomp in such a setup would be via CCs (I'm not going to sacrifice the amazing patch switching speed by the slow Stomp, so that would stay on one preset all the time).

- A MIDI controlled loop switcher. That's actually the tough part because all I've found so far is both overkill and expensive. I'd really only need 2-3 loops. Could go for a MIDI amp switching box and add, say, a dual loop thing controlled by analog switching inputs (there's kinda easy DIY kits around), but that would add too many layers that I wouldn't want to deal with. In case anyone knows of small MIDI controlled loop switchers, I'm all ears.

Alternatively, I could grab a Boss MS-3. Would do everything in one box and it'd be an amazingly competent setup. But I would really prefer not having to deal with the incredibly shitty Boss UI stuff again - something I only accept with the GT as it's offering some functions (mainly global blocks) the MS-3 wouldn't offer. And I'd also love to use the Stomp as my main FX unit.

I could as well try to get a combined MIDI controller and loop switcher, but they're all too huge and basically overkill anyway.
If it was possible, my plan would be to have a small board with the TXO, Stomp and 2-3 pedals mounted permanently, PSU and small loop switcher below and then add a MIDI controller not mounted on the board (and maybe an EXP pedal, too).
 
Sascha Franck said:
Is the Boss capable of a) sending both via BT and wired simultaneously and b) sending out all kinda messages? Such as sending a PC via BT and a CC via wired MIDI? That's actually what I could *really* use for a setup I'm having in my mind.
Click to expand...
I think you can trigger USB, BT and wired messages at the same time since there is no choice to make except HID or MIDI.

In ordinary BOSS fashion not all message numbers could be mapped initially for some reason. They did a firmware upgrade though that fixed that if I recall correctly. There’s also an Ext input for two additional footswitches and an Exp pedal input. Powered by standard batteries or 9V as well.
 
Dimiguitar said:
For the record, this doesn't happen often. Usually I can emulate captures fairly well with good modelling units. Brown packs have been an exception.

But just another experience with tonex: spent quite a bit of time again dialing in a VH4 (online through my friend who has one lol). He finally shot the capture with my desired settings. Amp only.

Sounds and feels amazing. That, while up to now fractal VH4 silver has been my go-to amp for a lot of heavy tones.

So I compared the capture vs my fractal VH4 preset. Did a lot of tweaking, which usually isn't required. By the end, there was still a considerable difference between the tonex capture and the fractal VH4.

The fractal sounded somehow garbled in the low end. Best I can describe it is like a hairball a cat spit out, comparatively speaking. Input cuts didn't really bridge the gap, neither did all kinds of master vol settings, advanced settings. EQ matching brought them closer, but the tonex capture still felt much better to play through.

I'm not saying the fractal sounds bad. The above comments are in comparison to the tonex capture. But so far, the tonex VH4 is my favorite diezel tone. It's replacing a fractal tone I was very confident about for ages.

The annoying part is I can't quite replicate this on the fractal lel. So that's an example where tonex one takes the lead. Maybe I have more success with fresh ears, today, because I'd like this tone on the fractal as well.

Fractal has said their next gen products will support NAM. I think you can emulate most tones very well with such modelling, but then there's cases like this, where nothing seems to bridge the gap.

I continue to be impressed by tonex one. And that's from someone who shot a million Kemper captures, ending up just using modelling for years, because it just sounded better, felt better, and was much more convenient.
Click to expand...

See, this sounds like my issue. I have used Fractal for years, but the low end kind of blurs together for the type of sound I like, and if you try to low cut it to fix it, you end up in cocked-wah territory. I always end up with mush or cocked-wah. The first time I tried I ToneX I didn't have that issue. That one main thing is why I have really gravitated towards ToneX this year. They just get the low end dynamics correct. There is a more immediate punch in the low end bass, which is everything in the tones I like.
 
Progressive_disclosure said:
No, the MIDI channel selection is unfortunately universal.

I’ll check the simultaneous sending over USB/BT/MIDI when I get the time as I want to confirm things for planning myself!
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I'm ideally looking for something that could somehow send different messages on different channels. But then, I could as well just filter out CCs on the Tonex and PCs on the Stomp, from all I know (need to look into the Stomp again), in which case I'd possibly be fine.
 
Sascha Franck said:
Thanks.

I'm ideally looking for something that could somehow send different messages on different channels. But then, I could as well just filter out CCs on the Tonex and PCs on the Stomp, from all I know (need to look into the Stomp again), in which case I'd possibly be fine.
Click to expand...
I was just looking at the app I have installed on my phone. By selecting ”PC+CC” mode you can set channel separately per BT/USB/MIDI but lose the option of selecting latching mode on that footswitch.

IMG_3382.jpeg

You can have different messages in the different tab. Here’s the general tab:
IMG_3383.jpeg


This is maybe drifting a bit OT but I’m hoping to set this up so I can send messages to both Tonex One and HX Stomp.
 
Progressive_disclosure said:
I was just looking at the app I have installed on my phone. By selecting ”PC+CC” mode you can set channel separately per BT/USB/MIDI but lose the option of selecting latching mode on that footswitch.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks a lot! That makes it quite an interesting contender.
Too bad there's no real manual for the Mvave Chocolate (at least none exactly written in comprehensible english...), because that seems to have a pretty complete MIDI implementation.
And then there's also the Hotone Ampero Control.
I'd actually love to have 4 switches rather than three (the external inputs don't help too much as you usually have no visual control), but first and foremost, it's about functionality.

Progressive_disclosure said:
This is maybe drifting a bit OT but I’m hoping to set this up so I can send messages to both Tonex One and HX Stomp.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is too much OT as IMO this thread should also be about how to integrate the TXO in whatever setups.

Fwiw, as mentioned before, my plan would be to send PCs to the TXO (it's the only way it can switch patches, at least currently) and CCs to the Stomp.
On the Stomp side of things, everything should be dead easy as you can filter out PCs entirely in the global settings. On the TXO however (or rather on the PM Pico or any other Builty TXO Controller version), it looks as if CCs can only be filtered for the BT-MIDI input. That's too bad, because otherwise you could just run any analog MIDI connection (which I'd prefer anyway) into the Stomp, including PCs and CCs and then connect the Pico via MIDI through. Done. As easy as it'd get.
But that doesn't seem to be possible. So there's these options left:

- Having a controller connecting to the Stomp via wired MIDI and to the Pico via BT. In that case it wouldn't matter whether the same messages would be sent through either protocol, simply because BT-CCs can be filtered on the Pico, PCs on the Stomp. Perfect. But you'd need to use BT. Which I still often find to be less reliable.

- Having a controller sending analog MIDI but being able to send dedicated messages per MIDI channel. Not sure whether any of the smaller things allow for that. I'd assume that the Boss one would be the best bet here. Personally, I wouldn't even split it into BT and analog but just use a plain old MIDI Cable. This would likely be my prefered solution, but as said, the Boss comes with just 3 switches and in an ideal world I'd really like to have 4 permanent switches.

- Finding out whether the Mvave Chocolate could actually connect to two BT receivers simultaneously. I doubt it, but if it could, that might solve my issues, too, as I also own a CME WIDI Jack.

Pretty much all bigger MIDI controllers would be able to at least send different commands through different channels, but I'm not sure about the smaller ones, will need to look this up for the Hotone and maybe the Blackstar Live Logic.

Fwiw, I actually stepped back from the idea of setting up a "medium" rig but want this to stay super compact. So a TXO and the Stomp would be it. Could use it on it's own already and then massively expand the options by simply connecting an external MIDI controller.
 
Come to think of all of this, it'd perhaps be the best solution to just grab a GT-1000 Core. All issues solved pretty much instantly due to the incredibly flexible switching architecture.

This is what I could imagine things to be like (board is a Pedaltrain Metro 16, just for comparison, I'd slap things together myself):

Tonex_GT1000_Core.jpg


Defenitely an incredibly competent setup already.
 
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