IK Multimedia TONEX

[Sascha Franck]

Unless you have the same guitar with the same setup through the same pedals (if any) you still would not know what they heard.

The used cab is responsible for a WAY bigger impact on the overall sound than the guitar.

 

[Chocol8]

The used cab is responsible for a WAY bigger impact on the overall sound than the guitar.

That's why you should pick one YOU like and not give two shits about what someone else thinks. This fixation people have about hearing what the capture maker intended is causing a ton of grief and not helping anyone make music.

 

[Sascha Franck]

That's why you should pick one YOU like and not give two shits about what someone else thinks.

Not really. The entire premise of a capture is to have an amp sounding the way it was intended to sound and nothing else. Otherwise we'd need no captures.

and not helping anyone make music.

Now, that is pathetic.

 

[Chocol8]

Not really. The entire premise of a capture is to have an amp sounding the way it was intended to sound and nothing else. Otherwise we'd need no captures.



Now, that is pathetic.

Uh NO!!!! There’s no such thing as sounding the way it was intended and chasing that mythical goal is only causing you problems.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Uh NO!!!! There’s no such thing as sounding the way it was intended and chasing that mythical goal is only causing you problems.

What are you doing in this forum then? And why are you (yes, you as well) obsessing about minutiae when it comes to guitar tones? Just to tell us that the used cab is irrelevant?

 

[Chocol8]

What are you doing in this forum then? And why are you (yes, you as well) obsessing about minutiae when it comes to guitar tones? Just to tell us that the used cab is irrelevant?

Your lack of understanding is disturbing.

Pairing cabs with amps, real or digital, is a VERY important part of developing tone.

Pairing the same exact cab as someone else used when making a capture for no reason other than that what this stranger used, is incredibly misguided.

You seem to be completely obsessed with your capture playback sounding exactly like what the capture maker heard. That’s impossible and a very foolish target to chase anyway.

 

[paisleywookiee]

 

[Sascha Franck]

Your lack of understanding is disturbing.

Absolutely not. Well, maybe for you it is. But that doesn't say much about me...

Pairing the same exact cab as someone else used when making a capture for no reason other than that what this stranger used, is incredibly misguided.

Absolutely not.

The capture was only made when the person had set it up to sound exactly as he/she wished it would sound. And for that to work, the cab plays an incredibly important role.

You seem to be completely obsessed with your capture playback sounding exactly like what the capture maker heard.

I'm not obsessed with any kind of accuracy at all. You should know this by now as I have said so for umpteenth times in this very forum already.
And still, it is *extremely* important whether someone had made a capture of an amp with it running through an 1x12 open back equipped with EVs or with a 4x12 equipped with Celestions in mind.

As an example: As said before, one of the captures I really absolutely love is the Dumble capture coming preloaded in the Tonex One. As a very rough estimation, at least 50% of the quality of this preset is coming from the cab (I tried quite some other cabs with it already). If I hadn't known how it was supposed to sound at least roughly, I possibly would've slapped on of my go-to IRs onto it - and it wouldn't even have sounded half as great.

Your lack of understanding is disturbing.

 

[Dimiguitar]

As an example: As said before, one of the captures I really absolutely love is the Dumble capture coming preloaded in the Tonex One. As a very rough estimation, at least 50% of the quality of this preset is coming from the cab (I tried quite some other cabs with it already). If I hadn't known how it was supposed to sound at least roughly, I possibly would've slapped on of my go-to IRs onto it - and it wouldn't even have sounded half as great.

I think that's often true. People go for a certain sound and the full chain matters. Changing the cab to something else may have you looking left and right, trying to find a good match, and loosing time from recording and playing. I personally want to know how things were intended to sound -- and from there, I may personalize things further. At times that works best too.

(Though the majority of the time I just use my own captures.)

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Absolutely not. Well, maybe for you it is. But that doesn't say much about me...



Absolutely not.

The capture was only made when the person had set it up to sound exactly as he/she wished it would sound. And for that to work, the cab plays an incredibly important role.



I'm not obsessed with any kind of accuracy at all. You should know this by now as I have said so for umpteenth times in this very forum already.
And still, it is *extremely* important whether someone had made a capture of an amp with it running through an 1x12 open back equipped with EVs or with a 4x12 equipped with Celestions in mind.

As an example: As said before, one of the captures I really absolutely love is the Dumble capture coming preloaded in the Tonex One. As a very rough estimation, at least 50% of the quality of this preset is coming from the cab (I tried quite some other cabs with it already). If I hadn't known how it was supposed to sound at least roughly, I possibly would've slapped on of my go-to IRs onto it - and it wouldn't even have sounded half as great.

Your lack of understanding is disturbing.

So, since the Tonex pedal is out I’ve been using it with the cab off and preferably DI captures with no cab baked in.
Where does that leave the conversation?

Interestingly enough (to me at least), with the Kemper it’s the reverse.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

That's why you should pick one YOU like and not give two shits about what someone else thinks. This fixation people have about hearing what the capture maker intended is causing a ton of grief and not helping anyone make music.

Nah, this is horseshit. Your point is true if we're talking about matching to the absolute finest detail, then it's not (always) important. But that doesn't mean because having the finest level of accuracy doesn't always matter that we should just tolerate absolutely no reference point at all. It just casts way too wide of a net and makes the experience absolutely shite to audition captures. If we don't draw a line at all, then how many dB should we be reasonably expected to guess within? +/-1dB is negligible, +/-5dB starts becoming annoying, and +/-10dB is more like "fuck this shit".

There are also absolutely situations where you would want things aligned 1:1, for instance in a studio environment when doing overdubs, or when using a studio tone on tour. Ultimately everyone's requirements are definitely and just setting the bar really low is unbelievably (and unnecessarily) short sighted. If Line 6 or Fractal just randomised all their gain staging (per amp model) for no reason and told users "nah, you figure it out" people would rightly say it's insane.

 

[Sascha Franck]

So, since the Tonex pedal is out I’ve been using it with the cab off and preferably DI captures with no cab baked in.
Where does that leave the conversation?

I will likely end up using it that way, too, at least for the most part.
But that doesn't change anything with the fact that for a first testrun, I'd just like to have the capture playing through a cab taking me at least somewhat into the ballpark of how that amp is supposed to sound like - even if I ended up completely mangeling it beyond anything it was ever meant to sound like.
And in the case of the capture of @Byrdman, I listened to the audio demo, then downloaded the capture and then just discovered that none of my usual IR suspects would even get me close, and that was certainly not because of the guitars used - I do by now have enough experience to have a good idea about the impact of a guitar used.
I have as well tried some other amp-only captures, and it's absolutely a similar experience pretty often. Which makes the device a lot less plug'n'play, simply because not only do you have to find a great capture, no, you do know as well have to find a suitable IR. Rabbit hole x 2.
Given that there's a whole bunch of VIR options included with the Tonex, it should be possible for whatever creators to simply pair a suitable VIR with their amp only capture. That'd make things a whole lot easier.

 

[Byrdman]

So, since the Tonex pedal is out I’ve been using it with the cab off and preferably DI captures with no cab baked in.
Where does that leave the conversation?

Interestingly enough (to me at least), with the Kemper it’s the reverse.

This is the same way I prefer to use it, but that's not saying @Sascha Franck 's desire to have his captures he likes to use to be as close to the originals as possible is the better/worse way. I guess the good thing is the flexibility to do both depending on your individual gear setup and preferred use.

I dont have a computer setup, friends do but I dont, so I play everything through my cabs. So I prefer DI's and add my own cabs. Other's that are more use to playing with their DAW and monitors or maybe even FRFR, a complete capture may be better for their purpose.

I guess I see both sides, but my preferences lean towards DI no cab captures.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Oh, and I have yet another question that I can't find an answer for in the manual:
When you download a full capture (amp and embedded cab), you can still switch the cab off. Is this done similar to the Kemper profiles where it kinda "guesses" the cab portion of the capture and substracts it? I'm asking because it doesn't seem to work too well quite often. I have a bunch of IRs I'm pretty familiar with and replacing the embedded cab with them sometimes seems to yield pretty unexpected results.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I guess I see both sides, but my preferences lean towards DI no cab captures.

I defenitely would prefer amp-only captures, too - but as said, I do as well want to have a rough idea about what I'm going for.

 

[Byrdman]

Oh, and I have yet another question that I can't find an answer for in the manual:
When you download a full capture (amp and embedded cab), you can still switch the cab off. Is this done similar to the Kemper profiles where it kinda "guesses" the cab portion of the capture and substracts it? I'm asking because it doesn't seem to work too well quite often. I have a bunch of IRs I'm pretty familiar with and replacing the embedded cab with them sometimes seems to yield pretty unexpected results.

Yeah, the software tries to isolate the cab from the capture and pull it out, but results are not the best usually. I assume as the technology gets better, this could be improved in the future.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yeah, the software tries to isolate the cab from the capture and pull it out, but results are not the best usually. I assume as the technology gets better, this could be improved in the future.

That's what I thought, thanks. Guess I need to either find complete rig captures working as is or just download a whole bunch of amp only captures working with my go-to IRs. Ok, I may as well modify some IRs, but I've been through that too often already to think of it as fun anymore.

 

[Deadpan]

So, since the Tonex pedal is out I’ve been using it with the cab off and preferably DI captures with no cab baked in.
Where does that leave the conversation?

Interestingly enough (to me at least), with the Kemper it’s the reverse.

I've always preferred full rig captures and yeah, this stemmed from using the Kemper.

With Tonex V2 I started focusing on DI and am very happy with the results.

 

[Chocol8]

Nah, this is horseshit. Your point is true if we're talking about matching to the absolute finest detail, then it's not (always) important. But that doesn't mean because having the finest level of accuracy doesn't always matter that we should just tolerate absolutely no reference point at all. It just casts way too wide of a net and makes the experience absolutely shite to audition captures. If we don't draw a line at all, then how many dB should we be reasonably expected to guess within? +/-1dB is negligible, +/-5dB starts becoming annoying, and +/-10dB is more like "fuck this shit".

There are also absolutely situations where you would want things aligned 1:1, for instance in a studio environment when doing overdubs, or when using a studio tone on tour. Ultimately everyone's requirements are definitely and just setting the bar really low is unbelievably (and unnecessarily) short sighted. If Line 6 or Fractal just randomised all their gain staging (per amp model) for no reason and told users "nah, you figure it out" people would rightly say it's insane.

We are talking about including an IR with a DI capture. The entire point of a DI capture is so you can choose your own IR or cab sim, or use it with a real cab.

If you want to be restricted to using someone else’s cab and mic choices use full captures.

And the second half of your post is pure nonsense. If you want the same gain settings in the studio, save the settings you used. Tonex will do that far better than any analog device with pots. Suggesting Tonex randomizes gain settings is beyond stupid. If it is doing that for you, you are doing something wrong.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The entire point of a DI capture is so you can choose your own IR or cab sim, or use it with a real cab.

Of course it is. But in order to know whether you're in the ballpark (or what'd take you there), an embedded IR would be immensely helpful. Just as it is helpful to have amp&cab blocks in the Helix series to give you a decent first impression.
Or even as it is helpful that the Recto you're trying out in a shop very likely isn't connected 1x12 open back.