I want a better recording interface

[FuzzyAce]

MOTU was always an avoid brand for my DAW (SAWStudio; I still use it daily, but it is very long in the tooth)

The only people I ever knew who used MOTU all switched over to Metric Halo. MOTU was always very mac targeted IME. I have seen a few MOTU units in guitar racks used as a class compliant mixer....not in person, tho...online

I'm late to the Motu brand, picked up a M4 couple years back and it's been solid for my little projects. They've had a very long and mostly solid presence in the recording world so I felt confident about the choice.

 

[ctreitzell]

The 8dBu spec was on their website, guessing the manual will have everything too.

If you’re reamping, you’ll want to be able to output a decent enough signal level. Especially because many reamp boxes attenuate the signal by some amount, and even the best ones might get 1:1 or only a little more.

Same goes if you’re using analog HW, you won’t be able to hit it with a particularly loud signal. and it can be annoying if the A/D and D/A aren’t aligned to the same calibration because your levels will change when going out and back in. Depending on your monitoring, you might want to send a slightly louder signal to them too (even if you’re attenuating with a monitor controller you may want to optimise the range of levels and background noise and resolution etc).

The same sort of thing is true for the A/D, having more headroom just means you can accept a wider range of sources without issues. If you have great SNR specs AND a lot of headroom you can record with plenty of space for peaks and no noise to worry about. If you have less headroom to work with, the same input signals will be closer to clipping. Having adjustable calibration is even better, and quite common these days.

When you read that -18dBFS stuff online, it’s usually with the assumption of having 22dBu of headroom. That means 0VU=4dBu=-18dBFS. I tend to think of 22dBu as a kind of ballpark “standard”. Having a bit more to work with is better, and I wouldn’t lose much sleep over having a little less. But it’s a spec worth paying attention to, especially when mixing and matching gear.

I clearly get a but muddled with the numbers and their units, thanks for the clarification :-)

 

[FuzzyAce]

The 8dBu spec was on their website, guessing the manual will have everything too.

If you’re reamping, you’ll want to be able to output a decent enough signal level. Especially because many reamp boxes attenuate the signal by some amount, and even the best ones might get 1:1 or only a little more.

Same goes if you’re using analog HW, you won’t be able to hit it with a particularly loud signal. and it can be annoying if the A/D and D/A aren’t aligned to the same calibration because your levels will change when going out and back in. Depending on your monitoring, you might want to send a slightly louder signal to them too (even if you’re attenuating with a monitor controller you may want to optimise the range of levels and background noise and resolution etc).

The same sort of thing is true for the A/D, having more headroom just means you can accept a wider range of sources without issues. If you have great SNR specs AND a lot of headroom you can record with plenty of space for peaks and no noise to worry about. If you have less headroom to work with, the same input signals will be closer to clipping. Having adjustable calibration is even better, and quite common these days.

When you read that -18dBFS stuff online, it’s usually with the assumption of having 22dBu of headroom. That means 0VU=4dBu=-18dBFS. I tend to think of 22dBu as a kind of ballpark “standard”. Having a bit more to work with is better, and I wouldn’t lose much sleep over having a little less. But it’s a spec worth paying attention to, especially when mixing and matching gear.

I'm glad you think of this stuff so I don't have to.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I'm glad you think of this stuff so I don't have to.

No one ever really explained this shit to me ever, and it’s too boring of a subject to nerd out on online (sound on sound in the best resource for this kind of stuff). So much contradictory stuff is written online without much context so it can be more confusing than it needs to be.

I’ve made every mistake in the book at some point, and also wondered why stuff behaves different when you’d think they’d be the same. Happy to help because there’s so much I wondered about that wasn’t really laid out well to me.

 

[HomespunEffects]

… MOTU was always very mac targeted IME. …

Well, it’s for use with Logic Pro …

 

[ctreitzell]

Guitar DI’s probably won’t get much above 13dBu unless you’re using boost pedals in front. I think UA have typically used 22dBu but they might have changed to 24dBu on their more recent upgraded converters.

I just looked up the x8p and line inputs are as you say= 24dBu

 

[ctreitzell]

No one ever really explained this shit to me ever, and it’s too boring of a subject to nerd out on online (sound on sound in the best resource for this kind of stuff). So much contradictory stuff is written online without much context so it can be more confusing than it needs to be.

I’ve made every mistake in the book at some point, and also wondered why stuff behaves different when you’d think they’d be the same. Happy to help because there’s so much I wondered about that wasn’t really laid out well to me.

Indeed! Man, I don't mind a little latency, but clipping low headroom drives me nutz

 

[FuzzyAce]

No one ever really explained this shit to me ever, and it’s too boring of a subject to nerd out on online (sound on sound in the best resource for this kind of stuff). So much contradictory stuff is written online without much context so it can be more confusing than it needs to be.

I’ve made every mistake in the book at some point, and also wondered why stuff behaves different when you’d think they’d be the same. Happy to help because there’s so much I wondered about that wasn’t really laid out well to me.

It's appreciated.
I know who to bother now if I ever have questions.

 

[ctreitzell]

Well, it’s for use with Logic Pro …

=-)

Again, driver stability, IMO, is such an important criteria

The one thing I haven't said about my RME UFX+ experience is the connection format for my unit is USB 3 and very occasionally the USB seating at the mobo can fail and need to be re-seated. (I'm talking maybe once a year). Modern units have various connection types with thunderbolt and Dante for example.

Nevertheless, the connection format is worth consideration. As I have said before, I'd prefer an RS232 or similar format...old school, yes, but it ain't coming loose from the mobo socket without unscrewing it

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, so it comes down to which is specifically better for using as a direct guitar input for plugins?

Regarding that, when I was setting the input levels for HX Native, I used an external pre-looper (to make sure the input of either system was identical) and compared what the HX Stomp would throw out on its DI outs (USB 7/8) and then adjusted the M2's input trim and a gain plugin (because I wanted to leave the M2 trim at zero for consistency) so the signal reaching HX Native had exactly the same level.
Once done, I compared the two signals running into the same patch and could hardly spot a difference (if at all).

As said before, there's some HX pedals and amps which profit from the variable impedance of the Stomp (and bigger HX models), so that's what you obviously lose with the M2's fixed impedance, but others than that, I can happily use either. Slapping other analog pedals in front seems to work just as well, too.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Again, driver stability, IMO, is such an important criteria

Fwiw, the Motu M-series drivers are very stable under macOS (and apparently Motu upped their Windows driver game considerably, too), just that the latency is reported wrong (hence the resulting recording offset of 45 samples), but once you accept that and don't need any fancy features (which the M-series simply don't offer), it's a pretty good VFM factor, especially in terms you want a) ready to plug in guitar inputs and b) lowest latencies (in that price range).

Oh, btw, they actually have one semi-fancy function, which would be the loopback I/Os. They appear as I/Os 3-4 and 5-6, one of them just carrying the output, the other one carrying both output and input. Quite useful in case you want to stream some stuff (through, say, OBS) or just quickly want to record bits of audio from the web before going for any rippers. I actually use it for the latter quite frequently.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The USB3 audio drivers with macos are a bit ropey atm. There’s Kernel and driver kit extensions and even then it can take some jigging about to get things stable. Apple (as usual) changed something. things that made it weird. USB2 seems rock solid still but I know some people on RME USB3 stuff on macOS that took a while to get stable.

 

[Sedaxel]

If you’re reamping, you’ll want to be able to output a decent enough signal level. Especially because many reamp boxes attenuate the signal by some amount, and even the best ones might get 1:1 or only a little more.

Yes, I experienced this myself, true. It was when trying give a proper sine wave from the output to calibrate the input following Tonocracy tool. And that would also affect capturing when reamping through the EVO. Yeah, thank you!

Same goes if you’re using analog HW, you won’t be able to hit it with a particularly loud signal. and it can be annoying if the A/D and D/A aren’t aligned to the same calibration because your levels will change when going out and back in. Depending on your monitoring, you might want to send a slightly louder signal to them too (even if you’re attenuating with a monitor controller you may want to optimise the range of levels and background noise and resolution etc).

The same sort of thing is true for the A/D, having more headroom just means you can accept a wider range of sources without issues. If you have great SNR specs AND a lot of headroom you can record with plenty of space for peaks and no noise to worry about. If you have less headroom to work with, the same input signals will be closer to clipping. Having adjustable calibration is even better, and quite common these days.

When you read that -18dBFS stuff online, it’s usually with the assumption of having 22dBu of headroom. That means 0VU=4dBu=-18dBFS. I tend to think of 22dBu as a kind of ballpark “standard”. Having a bit more to work with is better, and I wouldn’t lose much sleep over having a little less. But it’s a spec worth paying attention to, especially when mixing and matching gear.

Thanks for all this teaching info! Really apreciated.

 

[HomespunEffects]

… some HX pedals and amps which profit from the variable impedance of the Stomp (and bigger HX models) …

Can you say more about that? Are you talking about fuzz and vintage models?

 

[Sedaxel]

By the way, MirrorProfiles, in your opinion, What should I expect from the MR18 regarding "numbers"? Do you think I´ll miss a dedicated interface?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

By the way, MirrorProfiles, in your opinion, What should I expect from the MR18 regarding "numbers"? Do you think I´ll miss a dedicated interface?

Hard to say without knowing your exact needs. The specs look OK, but nothing spectacular. I’d just say, it’s not designed to be a recording interface, it just happens to offer it as a feature. I’m sure for live it’s solid, there’s a reason they’re like a standard now.

You might be able to make it work and have it do what you need, but I’d personally go for something dedicated. Ultimately, it’s Behringer and what they can offer for the price is remarkable but you always get what you pay for. Something always gives, and if you can afford something nicer it’s almost always worth it IMO.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Can you say more about that? Are you talking about fuzz and vintage models?

Yeah, exactly. Especially the fuzzes really don't work too well at 1MOhm (and I always liked some amps better with lower settings as well), but I'm fine with that.
Fwiw, as questionable as Amplitube might be, they have some fuzz boxes working pretty well with 1MOhm.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Yeah, exactly. Especially the fuzzes really don't work too well at 1MOhm (and I always liked some amps better with lower settings as well), but I'm fine with that.
Fwiw, as questionable as Amplitube might be, they have some fuzz boxes working pretty well with 1MOhm.

Well, I kind of hate fuzz.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Well, I kind of hate fuzz.

BANNED!

 

[Sascha Franck]

Well, I kind of hate fuzz.

For the most part, I like "semi-fuzzes", as in them basically being drives that could as well go into wooly territory. For that, within the HX universe, I really like the Top Secret OD and the Grammatico GSG amp, both of them working just nicely with 1MOhm input impedance.
I sometimes wish I could have a tad more of that grainy fuzz portion, but I guess I'll be buying a pedal somewhen in the next weeks. But then, I got away without one for decades, so maybe not...