I just put my FM3T up against my Ampero Stage II and I’m enlightened.

[KingsXJJ]

I went through headphones with amp and cab sims on as well as off going in to my Fender TM Super.

In both cases, I preferred the Hotone. Crazy right? I mean I love Fractal but I had never done up straight comparison between the two. I know some of you must be thinking this guy is deaf and/or can’t play. Maybe. But maybe not. It might be limited to my playback scenarios. It might be due to what tones I like. I’m not sure.

I am seriously thinking about selling my FM3 and just helping the Stage and AxeFXIII. I’m not bashing Fractal in the least nor pushing the Hotone. I did use my best guitars as well. Kind of stunned and surprised. Perhaps my idea of tone and feel is different?

 

[dk_ace]

If it sounds and feels good, it is good. It doesn’t matter what the crowd sourced “best” answer is, what matters is finding the sound in your head. If you can find cheap, all the better…

D

 

[yek]

Why keep the Axe-Fx 3 then?

 

[paisleywookiee]

Well, neither scenarios are ideal for best tones, but that being said, you like what you like. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Why keep the Axe-Fx 3 then?

In the hopes I can make it work eventually. I don’t want to give up on Fractal entirely. Seems like the best candidate to get there.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Well, neither scenarios are ideal for best tones, but that being said, you like what you like. Nothing wrong with that.

I think the direct in to the Super with or without amps sims or cabs and either combination should allow the FM3 to shine.

But the headphones with cabs and amp sims? That’s one on one man. Not optimal but I know which I preferred. I wasn’t even using an Ampero II HQ amp model either. Just a Friedman HBE.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I’m thinking that if a lowly Hotone unit stacks up this well against Fractal, maybe there’s something to be said about recent approaches. Maybe the new Line 6 unit is worth checking out for me.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I think the direct in to the Super with or without amps sims or cabs and either combination should allow the FM3 to shine.

But the headphones with cabs and amp sims? That’s one on one man. Not optimal but I know which I preferred. I wasn’t even using an Ampero II HQ amp model either. Just a Friedman HBE.

A Tonemaster Super Reverb? Running any modeler into that isn’t ideal. You’re running a preamp into a preamp.

With a modeler, ideally you’re going into studio monitors, a PA, or an FRFR. Or, a clean power amp and guitar cab. I just can’t imagine anything else being satisfying, personally.

But like I said, you like what you like, and the Hotones are supposed to be cool. Never played one, but am curious.

 

[banned]

That honestly doesn't say much without knowing your style, amp model that you're playing through - and MOST IMPORTANTLY - your sound reproduction device.

I don't put much stock in headphones. If you want a true assessment, disable cab modeling and plug into a good guitar cab in a good room (cabs are not near-field like monitors so the room matters). That way you can take out the IR piece and focus on the amp modeling and how good it is.

Not saying that your comments don't count - what I'm saying rather is that without appropriate sound monitoring, it's very hard to come to a conclusion.

 

[KingsXJJ]

A Tonemaster Super Reverb? Running any modeler into that isn’t ideal. You’re running a preamp into a preamp.

With a modeler, ideally you’re going into studio monitors, a PA, or an FRFR. Or, a clean power amp and guitar cab. I just can’t imagine anything else being satisfying, personally.

But like I said, you like what you like, and the Hotones are supposed to be cool. Never played one, but am curious.

As I mentioned, one on one in to headphones gave the same result, Not that much different from going in to studio monitors or FRFR. Besides possibly amp or cab in the room and that wasn’t the difference I keyed in on. But all cool!

 

[KingsXJJ]

That honestly doesn't say much without knowing your style, amp model that you're playing through - and MOST IMPORTANTLY - your sound reproduction device.

I don't put much stock in headphones. If you want a true assessment, disable cab modeling and plug into a good guitar cab in a good room (cabs are not near-field like monitors so the room matters). That way you can take out the IR piece and focus on the amp modeling and how good it is.

Not saying that your comments don't count - what I'm saying rather is that without appropriate sound monitoring, it's very hard to come to a conclusion.

I expect a good modeler to deliver good sound in to studio headphones, studio monitors or direct in to DAW. Maybe I’m wrong about that. At any rate, the Hotone delivered what I was hoping for and I was disappointed in what the Fractal unit provided under those circumstances. I’m as surprised as you!

 

[banned]

I expect a good modeler to deliver good sound in to studio headphones, studio monitors or direct in to DAW. Maybe I’m wrong about that. At any rate, the Hotone delivered what I was hoping for and I was disappointed in what the Fractal unit provided under those circumstances. I’m as surprised as you!

Agreed - but there is a big difference between a 2" woofer and a 12" guitar speaker. Ultimately, you're limited by physics.

If you want to get a really good assessment, plug into a good guitar cab. That'll tell you the TRUE true story on how good the AMP modeling is. Not saying you shouldn't use headphones, studio monitors etc.

 

[Mikael Dez]

I have never really liked straight guitar tone into headphones in comparison to studio monitors or a cab. Like sure it’s passable and I use it all the time for silent practice etc, but the experience sucks for me and I have to add reverb to get it to not sound so “flat” - idk the word for it. I’ve got Sennheiser HD600s, it ain’t the headphones, and I’ve felt this way with all modelers and plugins I’ve used.

 

[Frodebro]

I had my Kemper for about six years before dipping my toe into the Fractal pond, and my initial reaction was that I really preferred the Kemper for amp sounds. But, you have to figure that I was comparing a unit that I had six years worth of trial and error to find what I liked (and had gotten accustomed to), and I was comparing it to a unit that I hadn’t even scratched the surface on. I’m now four years on with the Fractals (things escalated), and the Kemper hasn’t been powered up for about three years.

 

[Frodebro]

I have never really liked straight guitar tone into headphones in comparison to studio monitors or a cab. Like sure it’s passable and I use it all the time for silent practice etc, but the experience sucks for me and I have to add reverb to get it to not sound so “flat” - idk the word for it. I’ve got Sennheiser HD600s, it ain’t the headphones, and I’ve felt this way with all modelers and plugins I’ve used.

The key to headphones is space- both width (stereo) and depth (wetter mixes on delay and reverb). A preset dialed in for monitors won’t work nearly as well with headphones, and a preset dialed in for headphones can sound too wet through monitors.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

I've used the Stage 2 (for effects only no amp sims) and I was impressed with it. Not only the effects algorithms were really good but the actual audio path was really transparent. I think Hotone is putting out some killer products.

Guitar players are a weird bunch. When something is good AND cheap we get suspicious of it lol

 

[paisleywookiee]

I've used the Stage 2 (for effects only no amp sims) and I was impressed with it. Not only the effects algorithms were really good but the actual audio path was really transparent. I think Hotone is putting out some killer products.

Guitar players are a weird bunch. When something is good AND cheap we get suspicious of it lol

I think of the affordable brands, the Hotone stuff seems the most thought out and supported, which is good. I’ve been thinking of getting the son one of the little ones, because otherwise he’s just using the turd modeling in Logic.

 

[synthpenguin]

Eh, you like what you like. Even if the playback methods were less than ideal, they were also the constants in the comparison, and so imo those aren’t a big factor in the difference here.

If you’re happy with the Hotone, that’s awesome, enjoy! It’s nice that it’s the cheaper option too!

If you want to double check the comparison, I’d just say to make sure things like stereo FX / width and reverb (stereo vs mono, type, length, pre-delay) are comparable on both units when comparing on headphones (that’s a huge factor with headphones), that the output volume is identical when comparing through the TM (to make sure one isn’t clipping the TM’s input), and that things like bass and treble are similar on the patches on both units so that you’re not inadvertently hyping one up.

…but that’s only if you want to be more “scientific” or if you want to be “sure”. If you just want to play guitar and you like the sounds you’re getting, then have fun :)

 

[FuzzyAce]

I think of the affordable brands, the Hotone stuff seems the most thought out and supported, which is good. I’ve been thinking of getting the son one of the little ones, because otherwise he’s just using the turd modeling in Logic.

Funny you brought up the modeling in Logic. I remember when I first had a copy of it, around 2001, 2002 I think... I used the built in guitar modeling for some tones and really liked it lol. I have no idea what it's like now since I gave up on Logic years ago. I liked the Sansamp plugin back then too.

 

[ejecta]

I went through headphones with amp and cab sims on as well as off going in to my Fender TM Super.

In both cases, I preferred the Hotone. Crazy right? I mean I love Fractal but I had never done up straight comparison between the two. I know some of you must be thinking this guy is deaf and/or can’t play. Maybe. But maybe not. It might be limited to my playback scenarios. It ight be due to what tones I like. I’m not sure.

I am seriously thinking about selling my FM3 and just helping the Stage and AxeFXIII. I’m not basking Fractal in the least nor pushing the Hotone. I did use my best guitars as well. Kind of stunned and surprised. Perhaps my idea of tone and feel is different?

Man there’s nothing wrong with your hearing. I don’t find Fractal stuff to be that much better if at all than a lot of the modeling options. You like what you like and there is no shame if it’s not the brand that others seem to go on about being the best.